HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes CC - 09/22/2014 - MINS 09 22 14 REG (2) (Migrated from Optiview)-------~----~-----~~----------~-----------------~-~-,
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22 , 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 1 of68
This summary is provided as a convenience and service to the public, media, and staff. It is not the
intent to transcribe proceedings verbatim. Any reproduction of this summary must include this notice.
Public comments are noted and heard by Council, but not quoted. This document includes limited
presentation by Council and invited speakers in summary form. This is an official record of the Milton
City Council Meeting proceedings. Official Meetings are audio and video recorded.
The Regular Meeting of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton was held on September 22,
2014 at 6:00 PM, Mayor Joe Lockwood presiding.
INVOCATION
Patrick Abent, Inner Quest Church, Milton, Georgia.
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Joe Lockwood called the meeting to order.
ROLLCALL
Councilmembers Present: Councilmember Thurman, Councilmember KUI1Z, Councilmember Hewitt,
Councilmember Mohrig, Councilmember Lusk and Councilmember Longoria.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
APPROV AL OF MEETING AGENDA
(Agenda Item No. 14-253)
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Hewitt moved to approve the Meeting Agenda with the following
changes:
• Move New Business Agenda Item No. 14-269, Consideration of a Resolution Appointing a
Member to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board for District 31Post 2, after the Consent
Agenda.
• Add an Executive Session to discuss Land Acquisition and Potential and Pending Litigation.
Councilmember Longoria seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
PUBLIC COMMENT
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 2 of68
Dianne Ellison, 14680 Creek Club Drive, Milton, Georgia 30004
Thank you for the opportunity to speak regarding the application to gate Crooked Creek. After
reviewing the application, I wanted to stress some points that were brought up regarding gating.
Crooked Creek is a community with over 600 homes. By reducing the number of signatures required on
the petition to 67% in order to change the gating, there are a significant number of residents who will be
affected financially and in other ways. More than 200 families representing at least 800 Milton citizens
could be forced to do something they may be very opposed to doing. This would even infringe upon
their rights as Crooked Creek residents. As Mrs. Wynn stated at the last meeting a few weeks ago, those
in opposition were not represented. We asked the City of Milton staff for answers to some questions we
had regarding the process and we were very appreciative of the quick response we received from Mr.
Lucas. We found that much of the information we received was contradictory to or missing from the
information available on the Crooked Creek website and the information that was presented at the town
hall meetings . A request to send an email to all the residents that my husband had composed was denied
by the board. To bring something forward at the town hall meeting that was controversial was met with
defensiveness and quite intimidating. The board finally agreed to meet with my husband and address
some of his concerns and made changes to the Q & A for gating after obtaining the required number of
signatures. Speeding will continue to be a problem even with gating. I have never had an issue with
crime in the neighborhood which does not seem to be excessive . If the police are not able to issue
tickets for speeding or running stop signs then we have not solved the safety issue with gating. The
board told us that speed bumps could not be installed without gating the community first. Mr. Lucas
told us that is not true. The studies I have read state that gating has little effect on crime. It is important
to note that the entire neighborhood is not gated and homes are easily assessable through avenues other
than the main gate. Traffic delays could be increased on Highway 9 as vehicles stack up waiting to enter
the gate code or stopped by the guard. The board has seemed to have lost objectivity since they have
vested so much time and energy into this endeavor. They have maintained from the beginning that they
are unanimous in their support for gating. Only one side of the issue was presented at town hall
meetings and online when gathering signatures. This approach took away the opportunity for residents
to make an educated decision. Early in the process, we obtained relevant information from reliable
sources; however, the board chose not to share this information with residents. Only after the board had
acquired enough signatures in support of gating they revised the Q & A to reflect this information. We
are asking that the council defer making a decision on this matter until all information, positive and
negative, has been shared with residents .
Patricia Overland, 1865 Birmingham Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
I recently returned home from a trip and discovered a tornado siren in front of my home. My son and I
own an international equestrian facility and we have clients that come from all over the world. We have
horses that are Olympic value. We have been at that location since 2000 . We developed the facility and
business ourselves. When we moved there, Canterbury on the Lake had just started being built. I tried to
acquire the five acres next to me to enhance and secure safety, privacy and protection; however, it had
already been acquired for houses. We have added double fencing, double paddocks, and extra high
fencing for the high strung young horses . My son and I, as well as our clients, have a very real concern
for the safety of our horses when the siren goes off. We are not as concerned about when the sirens go
off during a storm because our horses will be in shelter at that point. However, the monthly testings are
a concern . In addition, I have lost value on my property. Even if I wanted to sell it as a horse farm now,
I probably would not be able to. In addition , I received a letter from my insurance company stating that
they would no longer be able to ensure my property due to the siren being placed in such close
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 3 of 68
proximity to the horses. I would like to give you a copy of the letter they sent me and the brochure that
features my farm as a perfect example of equestrian living.
CONSENT AGENDA
1. Approval of the August 23,2014 Special Called Work Session Minutes.
(Agenda Item No. 14-254)
(Sudie Gordon, City Clerk)
2. Approval of the September 8, 2014 Regular City Council Meeting Minutes.
(Agenda Item No . 14-255)
(Sudie Gordon, City Clerk)
3. Approval of the Financial Statements for the Period Ending August, 2014.
(Agenda Item No. 14-256)
(Stacey Inglis , Assistant City Manager)
4. Approval of a Parks and Recreation Agreement for Outside Providers between the City of
Milton and Kim Saunders Yoga, LLC.
(Agenda Item No . 14-257)
(Jim Cregge, Parks & Recreation Department Director)
5. Approval of a Revision to the Personnel Policy Handbook Regarding Compensation and
Benefits.
(Agenda Item No. 14-258)
(Sam Trager , Human Resources Director)
6. Approval of JAMS NeutrallMediator Fee Agreement as Part of the Fulton CountylMunicipalities
SDS Dispute Resolution Process.
(Agenda Item No. 14-259)
(Ken Jarrard, City Attorney)
7. Approval of the Acquisition of 1,849.71 SF of Construction and Maintenance Easement at 15735
Hopewell Road from Murugadoss Kuppuswamy and Kamakshi Jayaraman for a Combined
Purchase Price of$3,432.
(Agenda Item No . 14-260)
(Carter Lucas, Public Works Director)
8. Approval of the Acquisition of 72.90 SF of Right of Way and 322.41 SF of Construction and
Maintenance Easement at 15704 Hopewell Road from Kristina Moeller and David Wittler for a
Combined Purchase Price of $2 ,591 .
(Agenda Item No. 14-261)
(Carter Lucas , Public Works Director)
9. Approval of the Acquisition of 0.053 AC of Right of Way and 0.104 AC of Construction and
Maintenance Easement at Crabapple Road West of Crabapple Chase Drive from SHF Crabapple,
LLC for a Combined Purchase Price of$15,800.
(Agenda Item No. 14-262)
(Carter Lucas, Public Works Director)
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 4 of68
10. Approval of the Acquisition of 0.084 AC of Right of Way and 0.124 AC of Construction
Easement at Branyan Trail and Itaska Walk from SHF Crabapple, LLC for a Combined
Purchase Price of $31 0,000.
(Agenda Item No . 14-263)
(Carter Lucas, Public Works Director)
11. Approval of the Acquisition of 0.919 AC of Right of Way, 0.027 AC of Construction and
Maintenance Easement and 0.46 AC of Construction Easement at Branyan Trail and Itaska Walk
from SHF Crabapple, LLC for a Combined Purchase Price of $1,181,146.
(Agenda Item No. 14-264)
(Carter Lucas , Public Works Director)
12. Approval of the Acquisition of 0.003 AC of Right of Way and 0.064 AC of Construction and
Maintenance Easement at 12685 Crabapple Road from William S. Grove, DMD, for a Combined
Purchase Price of $20,900.
(Agenda Item No. 14-265)
(Carler Lucas, Public Works Director)
13. Approval of the Acquisition of 0.028 AC of Construction and Maintenance Easement at 12595
Crabapple Road from TI Crabapple Station for a Combined Purchase Price of$ll,OOO.
(Agenda Hem No . 14-266)
(Carter Lucas, Public Works Director)
14. Approval of a Professional Services Agreement between the City of Milton and Meritage
Systems, Inc. for Community Development Management Software.
(Agenda Item No. 14-267)
(David Frizzell, IT Manager)
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Lusk moved to approve the Consent Agenda. Councilmember
Kunz seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS
1. Proclamations Recognizing Constitution Week Presented to the Daughters of the American
Revolution (Martha Stewart Bulloch and Chestatee River Chapters) and the Sons of the
American Revolution (Piedmont Chapter).
(Presented by Councilmember Bill Lusk)
2. Presentation of the City of Milton's Conservation Plan.
(Tom Daniels, Ph.D.)
3. Proclamation Recognizing Tom Lowe Day.
(Mayor Joe Lockwood)
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 5 of68
FIRST PRESENTATION (None)
PUBLIC HEARING
1. Consideration ofan Ordinance to Adopt Amendments to the Fiscal 2014 Budget for Each
Fund of the City of Milton, Georgia Amending the Amounts Shown in Each Budget as
Expenditures, Amending the Several Items of Revenue Anticipations, Prohibiting Expenditures
to Exceed Appropriations, and Prohibiting Expenditures to Exceed Actual Funding Available.
(Agenda Item No. 14-248)
(First Presentation at September 8, 2014 Regular Council Meeting)
(Stacey Inglis, Assistant City Manager)
Stacey Inglis, Assistant City Manager
The purpose of these amendments is to bring the budget in line with actual revenue and expenditures.
In the general fund, there are increases to the revenue and to the expenditures.
Increases to revenue are $1,497,350.
Increases to expenditures are $1,392,541.
An overall net increase in the fund balance of $1 04,809.
The highlights of the revenue amendments are as follows:
• The local option sales taxes are coming in higher than anticipated by about $550,000 more than
our projection at mid-year. This increase is due mostly due to increased consumer spending.
• Motor vehicle taxes have also increased significantly as a result of House Bill 386. We are
projecting $200,000 more than what is currently budgeted.
• Property taxes are anticipated to be about $370,000 higher than projected. That is net of
$440,000 increase for current taxes and a decrease of $70,000 in prior year taxes. We had a
greater collection than what we anticipated last year so prior year collections are decreased from
what was projected.
• Land disturbance fees and building permit revenues were increased by $106,700 and $50,000,
respectively, to account for higher than anticipated collections.
• Court administration fees and fines and forfeitures were also increased by a total of $140,000.
• Plan review fees are coming in around $82,000 higher than projected.
The highlights of the expenditure amendments are as follows:
• An increase of $70,000 to the legal costs due to changing the defined benefit plan to a defined
contribution plan for city employees.
• Renovations to city hall to combine all the entrances to one main entrance is an estimated
$22,600. These funds are coming from the contingency line item that we already have budgeted.
• A new septic tank is necessary for Fire Station 43. The existing septic tank has failed. It will
cost around $33,000. This cost is being offset by a decrease to the contingency line item.
• The largest amendment is a transfer of $1 ,330,651 from the general fund to the capital projects
revenue bond fund to cover the acquisition of the city hall property of $945,651 and the second
artificial turf field at Bell Memorial Park of$385,000.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22 , 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 6 of68
SECOND PUBLIC HEARING
2. Consideration of an Ordinance of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton, Georgia, to
Adopt the Fiscal 2015 Budget for Each Fund of the City of Milton , Georgia Appropriating the
Amounts Shown in Each Budget as Expenditures , Adopting the Several Items of Revenue
Anticipations , Prohibiting Expenditures to Exceed Appropriations , and Prohibiting Expenditures
to Exceed Actual Funding Available.
(Agenda Item No . 14-249)
(Dis cussed at August I J, 2014 Coun cil Work Session)
(Discu ss ed at August 23,2014 Sp ec ial Called Work Session)
(First Presentation and First Public Hearing at September 8,2014 Reg ular Council Meeting)
(Chris Lagerbloom, City Manager)
Chris Lagerbloom, City Manager
This is the second and final public hearing for the budget that you will consider later during this
meeting.
The total budget this year is balanced at $24,386,240. When we put the budget together, we looked at
three priorities :
• Sustainability of existing services .
• Maintaining the quality of life for citizens and businesses through capital programming.
• Enhancement to services through operating initiatives.
Some of the initiatives we are proposing this year are as follows:
Staffing enhancements to include two in the Police Department, one in the Communications
Department, and one in the Public Works Department.
We have also budgeted to improve our technology as a cloud-based system.
As we have continued to do each year, I am also requesting a 2.5% pay increase for all city employees .
In addition , we conducted a salary survey and it indicated that we are lagging in the market for a couple
of positions so we are requesting to adjust those accordingly.
Our healthcare costs will increase by 5%.
Per your request, we have modified the Capital Improvements projects to show funding in the year they
are to occur as opposed to banking funds to be used at a later date.
This budget contemplates the completion of Bell Memorial Park in 2015 and beginning to construct a
new City Hall in 2017 .
We have budgeted for sidewalk improvements, intersection improvements, road paving , etc.
There are also funds in the budget for several intersection and road improvements in the Crabapple area.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22 , 2014 at 6 :00 pm
Page 7 of68
Zoning is transcribed verbatim
ZONING AGENDA
1. Consideration ofU14-02 -14505 Batesville Road, by LRF Milton, LLC -To Operate a Rural
Event Facility (Sec. 64-1842).
(Agenda Item No. 14 -247)
ORDINANCE NO . 14-09-218
(First Presentation at September 8,2014 Regular Council Meeting)
(Kathleen Field, Community Development Director)
Councilmember Thurman
Mayor, before we begin, I will be recusing myself from this meeting based on the fact that my husband
and I still own the lot adjacent to the property and the City Attorney has recommended that I recuse
myself.
Kathleen Field, Community Development Director
Mr. Mayor and members of the city council, you have in front of you an area showing the parcel
outlined in red. It shows the current zoning for this which is zoned AG 1. Future land use map shows
this area to be for agricultural equestrian estate residential. Here is the copy of the revised site plan that
was submitted to us on August 19,2014. And I am going to show you some photos of the subject site.
Subject Site
• The subject site is zoned AG-1 (Agricultural) and developed with a 10,500 square foot single
family residence and other accessory structures built between 1910 and the present on 47.7
acres.
• There is also an existing 2,748 atrium (event space) recently constructed. Staff notes that the
Mayor and City Council approved a Use Permit (U14-01NC14-02) for a 4 bedroom bed and
breakfast on August 18,2014.
• The bed and breakfast will be utilized to accommodate guests using the event facility.
• The applicant seeks a Use Permit for a rural event facility primarily utilizing the existing 2,748
square foot atrium (event space).
• The applicant is proposing to construct an addition to the atrium of 1,512 square feet for a total
of 4,296 square feet.
The applicant's revised letter of intent received by the Conununity Development Department
on August 18, 2014 stated the following as it relates to the operation of the facility:
"1. Maximum capacity of250 guests"
"2. Hours of Operation: 9:00 a.m. to Midnight, with music until 11:00 PM. Following the 11:00 music
termination, event attendees would have until 12:00 AM to acquire their vehicles from valet and vacate
the even ts facili hj. "
3. Days of Operation: Seven Days a Week. Although applicant anticipates that most events will be held
Friday through Sunday, it will also make the facilihJ available during the week for select corporate,
political and other events.
All events will comply with the Allowable Sound Levels provided by Sections 20-680 and 20-681 of the
Code of the city of Milton. "
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Mond ay, September 22 , 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 8 of68
"However , applicant would be amenable to earlier closing times Monday -Thursday during the academic
year (e.g. Music until 10:00 p.m. and attendees vacating the jacilin) by 11 :00 p.m."
"4. Last Call: Last call for any alcoholic beverages will be 15 Minutes prior to the termination of music at
11:00 PM . "
"5. Traffic: Depending upon the number ofattendees, all events will have either one or huo off-dun) City
of Milton or Fulton Counn) police officers directing traffic in and out of the facilin;. Valet service will be
mandatory for all events over 75 attendees.
Use Permit Standards
• The applicant's site plan and letter of intent meets or exceeds the Use Permit Standards as
required by an Agricultural Event Facility (Sec. 64-1842) except for three items discussed below:
• The maximum number of attendees and hours of operation will be evaluated by the
Mayor and City Council on a case by case basis for each site to protect the public's
health, safety and welfare.
• The applicant has proposed a maximum of 250 guests for each event. Staff is in
agreement with this request based on the large size of the parcel and the location of the
event facility located in the center of the property.
• This number will be reflected in the Recommended Conditions.
• It is Staffs opinion that the proposed time of Midnight for ending events, Friday through
Sunday is too late and may have a negative impact on the surrounding properties.
• The Mayor and City Council recently approved a Use Permit for a similar operation
pursuant to U l3-04 located at 13895 Hopewell Road which required that amplified sound
cease at 10:00 p.m . and the Use Permit required the event to cease at 11 :00 p.m.
• Therefore, Staff recommends the same requirements for the subject site which will be
included in the Recommended Conditions.
• In respect to hours of operation Monday through Thursday , Staff recommends that events
end at 10 p.m. and amplified sound ceases at 9:00 p.m. throughout the entire year. This
condition will be included in the Recommended Conditions
This is the last item in which the mayor and city council need to address on a case by case basis and this
pertains to the location and dimensions of the undisturbed buffers.
Location and dimensions of undisturbed buffers, if needed to ameliorate the visual and audio effects of
the facility , will be evaluated and determined by Mayor and City Council on a case by case basis for
each site.
• The applicant's revised site plan does not provide for additional undisturbed buffers but
mentioned that the applicant has planted additional vegetation between the atrium and the
property line to help ameliorate noise .
• It is Staffs opinion that based on the size of the property, 47.7 acres, the additional 20 plus acres
for the entire site, the Little River to the west, existing heavy vegetation along the north property
line abutting Taylor Glen Subdivision, Atlanta National Golf Course to the south and lastly ,
preserving the rural viewshed along both Batesville and Taylor Roads, undisturbed buffers are
not required.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 9 of68
SITE PLAN ANALYSIS
Rural Milton Overlay District
• The proposed site plan meets the requirements of the Rural Milton Overlay District.
City Arborist
• The proposed Use Permit will not impact any specimen trees based on the fact that there will be
minimal improvements to the site.
Public Works Department
1. Stopping sight distance profile is provided and traffic memo states intersection sight distance is
adequate.
2. Driveway width and radius returns within the right of way do not meet standards.
Public Involvement
Community Zoning Information Meeting
On July 29, 2014 the applicant was present at the Community Zoning Information Meeting held at the
Milton City Hall. There were 27 people in attendance at the meeting . The following issues were
brought up at the meeting:
• Concerned about noise disturbing residents in Valmont subdivision.
• Concerned about potential intoxicated drivers coming from events driving in the vicinity.
• Concerned with the reduction of property values for adjacent and nearby properties.
• Residents stated that they would rather see a subdivision developed than an event facility.
• Residents questioned who would enforce the conditions of the use permit.
• City of Milton Design Review Board Meeting held a Courtesy Review -August 5, 2014
• This is a good use of the property.
• Make sure parking is not visible from neighboring houses.
• Public Participation Plan and Report was submitted
• The applicant submitted the Public Participation Report on August 20, 2014. The public
participation meeting was held on August 13,2014 at 7:00 p.m. at the proposed site. There were
eleven people who signed in, but there were some who chose not to sign the sign-in sheet.
• The Planning Commission reviewed this application on August 27,2014 and they recommended
Approval Conditional 3 -2 with the following Recommended Conditions:
• To the owner's agreement to restrict the use of the subject property as follows:
• The hours of operation shall be the following:
• Friday through Sunday Saturday: 9:00 a.m. to 11 :00 p.m. with the ceasing of amplified
sound and serving of alcohol at 10:00 p.m.
• ii . Monday Sunday through Thursday: 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. with the ceasing of
amplified sound and serving of alcohol at 9:00 p.m.
• iii. Amplified ound of music shall be located within the enclosed portion of the atrium .
• iv. All deliverie shall enter off of Batesville Road .
• v. When portable toil ts are used . they shall not be viewed from Batesville Road and
aylor Road .
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Coun cil
Mond ay, September 22 , 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 10 of68
Use Permit Considerations
1. The proposed development is located in the Agricultural , Equestrian, Estate Residential (AEE)
Land Use category on the City of Milton 2030 Comprehensive Plan Map. The proposed Use
Permit is permitted in the AG-l (Agricultural) district which is an acceptable zoning district for
the AEE land use category.
In addition , the following Plan Policies are consistent with the proposed use:
• "We will support programs that retain, expand and create businesses that provide a good
fit for our community ' s economy in terms of job skills required and links to existing
businesses and locate them appropriatel y within the City ."
• "We will encourage the preservation of natural resources areas and preserve contiguous
green open spaces development of land in appropriate designated areas as development
occurs."
• "We will encourage development that is sensitive to the overall setting of the community
and will contribute to our community 's character and sense of place."
• 2. The subject site is adjacent to the Little River which is the border between the City of
Milton and Cherokee County to the west. To the north is Taylor Glen subdivision and to
the east is Val mont subdivision with minimum one acre lots. To the south is the Atlanta
National Golf Club. It is Staffs opinion that the proposed rural event facility is
compatible with adjacent and nearby properties if approved with the Recommended
Conditions.
• 3. The proposed use ' s effect on the traffic flow , vehicular and pedestrian, along adjoining
streets should be minimal as the frequency and timing occurs during off peak times,
during the weekend hours and typically not during the week. In addition , traffic will be
entering and exiting on Batesville Road and not on Taylor Road where there are existing
single family subdivisions, which should minimize the impact on these subdivisions.
• 4. The required number of parking spaces is one space per 2.5 attendees. The applicant
has indicated a total of 120 parking spaces for the facility which is 20 more than the
required 100 parking spaces. The applicant has also indicated that valet parking will be
required for events with more than 75 attendees. The parking is located in the central part
of the site and cannot be seen from either Batesville or Taylor Roads or adjacent
properties.
• 5. Based on the site plan submitted and the proposed use, Staff recommends no additional
buffers on the site based on the size, existing tree coverage , and the intent to preserve the
rural viewshed along the roadways. In addition, there is a lready a requirement of a 50ft
undisturbed buffer and 25 foot non improvement setback along the Little River on the
west boundary of the site.
• 6 . The applicant has not indicated any addition al lighting on the site. If lighting is
proposed, it must comply with the Night Sky Ordinance.
• 7. The proposed ingress and egress to the event facility is via Batesville Road and thus
will have minimal direct impact on the subdivisions along Tay lor Road.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 11 of68
Conclusion
If approved with the Recommended Conditions, the proposed rural event facility is consistent with the
City of Milton 2030 Future Land Use Plan and Policies. Therefore, Staff recommends U14-02 be
APPROVED CONDITIONAL.
Recommended Conditions
I) To the owner's agreement to restrict the use of the subject property as follows:
a) A rural event facility.
b) The number of attendees shall not exceed 250 people for any single event.
c) The hours of operation shall be the following:
1. Friday through Sunday: 9:00 a.m. to II :00 p.m. with the ceasing of
amplified sound at 10:00 p.m.
B. Monday through Thursday: 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. with the ceasing of amplified
sound at 9:00 p.m.
2) To the owner's agreement to abide by the following:
a) To the revised site plan received by the Community Development Department on August
19, 2014. Said site plan is conceptual only and must meet or exceed the requirements of
the Zoning Ordinance, all other applicable City ordinances and these conditions prior to
the approval of a Land Disturbance Permit.
3) To the owner's agreement to the following site development considerations:
a) A 10,536 square foot structure (the existing house), a 4,296 square foot atrium (includes
addition), and all other buildings shall not be expanded in size as depicted on the revised
site plan received by the Community Development Department on August 19,2014.
b) The location and number of parking spaces shall be as depicted on the revised site plan
received on August 19,2014. All events with more than 75 attendees shall be required to
have valet service and provide a minimum of one off-duty police officer for such events.
4) Access to the site shall be subject to the approval of City of Milton Public Works Department:
a) Driveway(s) shall meet required intersection sight distance and shall be certified by a
professional engineer
b) Driveway(s) shall be improved within the right of way
Mayor Joe Lockwood
Let's speak to any questions for Kathy?
Councilmember Longoria
Kathy, I was wondering what the purpose of the restriction on the existing building was? Is it
specifically to control how much space is being utilized for the events facility; is it to limit the amount
of space, what is the idea there?
Kathy Field
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 12 of68
Not to expand the use to any more than what is currently being proposed which is to use the atrium
basically as the event space for up to 250 people but not to expand anymore because I would see that as
an expansion of the Use Permit.
Councilmember Longoria
So ... not so much as a restriction ... but more just setting the limits for this particular Use Permit?
Kathy Field
Yes, that is correct.
Mayor Lockwood
Alright, we will start this public hearing with those in support of the applicant or if the applicant itself
would like to present.
Rich Kaye, ESQ, Taylor English Duma, 1360 Parkwood Circle, Ste 400 Atlanta, GA 30339
Thank you, Mr. Mayor and City Council. My name is Rich Kaye. I am an attorney with the law firm of
Taylor English Duma, Located at 1600 Parkwood Circle, STE 400, Atlanta, Ga 30339. I am here with
Sam and Joe Ivey who are the trustees for the trust that own the property. We represent the applicant
LRF Milton, LLC that is made up of members of the Ivey family, with respect with application for
Special Use Permit to operate a rural or agricultural event facility under Milton Code Section 64-1842.
also wanted to add just very quickly that the Hopewell site was not approved under this Code Section; in
fact it is under 5 acres, so it really is not an applicable comparison. I will be brief with my comments so
that I have an opportunity to address concerns with the property's neighbors who may not be in support
of this application. The property is currently owned by trust established in favor of the heirs of the
George H. Ivey Jr. Trust, until he passed earlier this year, Mr. Ivey was a committed steward of the
property for well over 70 years. Mr. Ivey 's heirs intend to follow in George H. Ivey Jr. footsteps as a
curator and guardian of rural and pastoral property. The entire Little River 's Farm property is
approximately 80 acres and is comprised of farm land, wooded acres and landscaped grounds. It
contains a small lake, an equestrian bam, and other structures supporting its current farm use. The
council has already approved a Band B Special Use Permit for the main house on the property. Mr. Jo
Ivey and his wife will be living on that property. Our application for rural event facility fits squarely
within the City of Milton's 2030 Comprehensive Land Use Plan by preserving the property's rural and
pastoral character and certainly with the presentation we heard today by Dr. Daniels. The events use of
the property very importantly permits the next generation ofIvey's to continue to live on the property
and make it their permanent home. In order for the property to be self-sustaining and preserve its
current rural character the trustees and the beneficiaries of the trust require a conunercial use to generate
sufficient income to pay for such things as taxes, an upkeep on the farm. The applicant believes that the
events operation would provide a level of income sufficient to maintain the property as it would be an
unique venue where wedding parties or special event participants can not only hold their special events
there but also can spend the night before, during or after these events. For the sake of brevity I would
like to cut to the chase with respect to the difference between what the Staff and Planning Conunission
are reconunending with respect to hours of operations and what the applicant believes it requires in
order to makes the event facility financially viable. The applicant requested that the hours of operation
for the facility be from 9:00 a.m. -midnight with live to artificial music until 11 :00 p .m . for Friday
Sunday. Attendees not spending the night at the Bed and Breakfast would vacate the premises by
midnight and for Monday -Thursday during the academic year music until 10:00p .m. and attendees
vacating the premises by 11 :00 p.m. During the summer months normal longer hours would apply.
These hours of operation are absolutely necessary to make this facility a competitive one with other
----~ --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 13 of68
similar venues. We will need to remember that during the hot summer months the actually wedding
ceremony cannot start until 6:30 p.m. or 7:00 p.m. because it isjust too hot and potential renters of the
facility will not pay the going rate for a facility that can only be used for 3 hours. In support of these
hours that we have been requesting in the application we submitted to the planning commission an Excel
spreadsheet surveying 21 competitive venues that have similar or later hours of operations. We also
have a letter from a popular and successful event planner that supports the applicants requested hours of
operation. Even though we performed a decibel check during the neighborhood meeting showing that
the decibel levels at the property edge were far less than the limits of City of Milton code section 20-680
even at concert decibel levels in the atrium where amplified music would be located exclusively. It
appears that the Planning Commission and Staff, as well as the neighbors of the Valmont Subdivision,
believe that noise will be an issue and therefore want to limit the hours of operation because of that. In
an effort to accommodate everyone with their noise concerns, the applicant has filed a revised
application and letter of intent with substantial revisions to our original application offering significant
accommodations with respect to noise and other concerns. First, we removed the 32 acre easterly
property track between the atrium and Taylor Road completely from the application creating almost a
quarter of a mile of buffer between the atrium and the Val mont Subdivision. Further, by removing this
track, we have relocated the parking which was originally situated on this track and in view and ear shot
of Val mont to a hidden area which cannot be viewed from Taylor Road or Batesville Road on the
property that we are applying for. I also wanted to assure the council that these 32 acres that we have set
aside are not subject to development at this time and are currently governed by current use contract with
the state of Georgia for the next three and a half plus years. Secondly, as an accommodation, we have
agreed to construct an enclosed atrium extension which will further buffer the sound with glass and solid
walls. Although the sound levels were well within Milton code requirements, this extension of the
atrium will reduce the sound to a negligible level to less than a whisper in the Val mont subdivision. In
fact, during our test without the new addition, one of the neighbors confirmed that his spouse heard
absolutely nothing from her kitchen in a home that is off of Taylor Road that abutted the property. Still
further, the fire marshal has requested that each wall of the new atrium have at least a 20% door like
opening which in this case would be approximately eight feet high by eight feet four inches wide. This
opening seems to be of great concern to the Valmont residents because they feel that such an opening
would cause some sound to travel to their property. So, in order to once again accommodate the
Val mont residents, we would locate the openings of the rear walls of the atrium, which faces the
Val mont subdivision to the far left of the wall, instead of directly into the subdivision. This far end, the
left end or the northern end, when you look at the Valmont subdivision, is blocked by woods and trees.
Secondly, we have done some additional research on sound absorbing acoustical curtains that could be
used to cover these openings and still meet the requirements of the fire code. These acoustical curtains
will dampen the sound 20-25 decibels. So, even though it is all going to be blocked, any of those
openings would be covered by these acoustical dampening curtains. Again, without this additional
enclosure and the openings covered with noise dampening material, the sound emanating to the Valmont
subdivision during our test at the neighborhood meeting, did not even register on the 40 decibel meter at
the property lines of Val mont. We are also prepared to offer, if the council deems it necessary, to
actually limit the sound to 45 decibels at the Taylor Road property line during the hours of 10:00 to
11 :00 p.m. Friday through Sunday and 9:00 to 10:00 Monday through Thursday. So, while we do have
that music going until 11 :00, we would agree that we would keep the decibel levels at the edge of our
property to 45 decibels. The code section permits 65 and 60. Besides the sound, we addressed the
safety concerns of the Valmont subdivision by moving the parking off of the 32 acre track so that the
egress and ingress would not be close to Taylor Road but would be in the center of the property and give
a much longer field of site up and down Batesville Road. We are also having off-duty police officers
directing traffic, valet parking, and we have also agreed that anyone that contracts with us must sign, as
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6 :00 pm
Page 14 of68
part of their agreement, an agreement that we can, the valets can keep any keys of anyone that we see
that is intoxicated. The other thing too is that they were worried about trucks coming in off of Taylor
Road leaving the property. All of our trucks for the events facility would be coming in through the
Batesville Road entrance. Lastly, we believe that our application as applied for fits well within the
overall City of Milton 2030 Comprehensive Land Use Plan by preserving its rural character. We believe
that if we are unable to operate our facility during the hours requested, we will not be able to make this
venue a viable one, and therefore, we cannot promise that we will be able to maintain its rural and
pastoral character. We hope that you look favorably with respect to our application and our position
with respect to hours of operation. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood
Sud ie, how many approximate cards do we have, speakers?
City Clerk Gordon
We have a total of lOin support and that includes 4 to read into the record in support and we have a total
of lOin opposition, which includes 4 for me to read into the record. So, six speakers on each side.
Mayor Lockwood
So, do we want to start at maybe at 10 minutes and give each side folks time to speak? Does anybody
have a problem with that? We want to give everyone the opportunity to speak.
City Manager Lagerbloom
Mr. Mayor, do you want to, since we have heard a full 10 minutes of support , do you want to hear 10
minutes , should we extend it after we have heard 10 minutes of opposition and then go back to the
support or are you wanting to extend the support at this point to a full 20 minutes?
Mayor Lockwood
So, a total of 20 minutes for each side.
Ken Morton, 14732 Taylor Valley Way, Milton, Georgia 30004
Good evening, Mr. Mayor and City Council. I have been asked to speak on behalf of Taylor Glen
subdivision. I have lived in our community my entire life and my family has been here for many
generations. As you know, the Little River Farm is a landmark. It has been a wonderful feature of
Milton for many years. So, when we heard about the news we wanted to make sure, of course, that we
understood the impact with noise, traffic and appearance. We believe that the concessions that they
have made satisfy those concerns are certainly satisfactory and good. We are aware that when the event
happened several weeks ago, I went down there and listened closely in front of Valmont and was
surprised how low the noise level was and , of course at the end of Taylor Glen where I live, how low the
sound was. I think this would be a great addition. We also support their desire to keep it open until
11 :00 with the understanding on the weekends that it would be reduced after 10:00 and then reduced
sound after 9:00. We feel like they have made great concessions in making sure that sound barriers are
in place and that further things are going to be put in place such as trees and so forth to prevent further
sound there along Taylor Road. Thank you.
Fritz Holzgrefe, 14743 Taylor Valley Way, Milton, Georgia 30004
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 15 of68
Good evening Mr. Mayor and City Council. I live in the Taylor Glen subdivision in the cul-de-sac
nearest the Little River property. My comments represent many of those in our neighborhood. We have
all been very impressed with the attention paid by the Ivey family to the potential impact to the
community and the efforts they have made to mitigate all such impacts. Further, we think it is critically
important to balance the range of potential options for this property and they have identified one that
appears to be economically viable and one that would keep the character that is so important to our part
of Milton. Arguably, the proposal goes a long way to preserving the character and with this unique
venue in mind something like this has a longer term economic viability. We support the use of the
specific times that they have proposed this evening with the extended evening hours to allow them to be
competitive in the market in which they operate. Thank you.
Jack Lindon, 14810 East Bluff Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
Good evening council. I am speaking tonight as the chainnan of the Milton Grows Green
environmental sustainability committee. I want to start by reading our one sentence mission statement,
"Milton Grows Green is a citizen volunteer committee advocating for the responsible management of
growth by conserving and protecting resources while preserving Milton's heritage and natural landscape
for future generations." This is the primary reason the committee is in favor of this proposal. We
discussed it at our meeting this past month and we are unanimously in favor of supporting the proposed
use of this property. I have had the pleasure earlier this evening of listening to Professor Daniels talk
about the ways that Milton can try and maintain its rural character. Some of those methods he talked
about cost money. Direct purchase of land, conservation land; purchase of land for parks and trails,
purchase of conservation easements all take a lot of money. There are some things that don't cost
money. TDR's don't cost the city any money. A conservation subdivision ordinance would not cost the
city any money. And, the best thing would be when citizens volunteer not to turn their property into
subdivisions. When I first heard about this about a month ago at the meeting of the planning board, I
was surprised to hear this and I thought this was a great idea and, I said to myself, if we could get about
80 more people, 80 is the number of parcels in Milton with 20 acres or more, if we could get 80 more
people to do this, we wouldn't have a Preserve Rural Milton problem. So, we are very much in favor of
this. We hope that the city will do whatever is possible to make this happen. Thank you.
Kathleen Johnson, 385 Taylor Glen Drive, Milton, Georgia 30004
Good evening Mr. Mayor and City Council members. I live in the Taylor Glen subdivision. I have
submitted an affidavit and I am speaking on behalf of my neighborhood which includes 64 houses and
families and over 200 residents. Taylor Glen residents want you to know that we fully support the use
pennit requested by Little River Farms including the amplified music being played until 11 :00 p.m. on
weekends and 10:00 p.m. on weekdays. I have also sent you a petition signed by more than 160 Milton
residents who also fully support the use pennit and the music times. Taylor Glen is the neighborhood
that is the closest to Little River Farms. Several of our property owners share a property line with Little
River Farms and is actually, if you look on the map enclosed in your packet, these houses are actually
closer than the houses in Valmont. This would be the event facility and several of the houses in our
neighborhood are closer than the Valmont neighborhood. We are all in support of this. Not one of our
Taylor Glen neighbors are bothered by the sound coming from the facility including on the night about a
month ago when they had a private wedding which is what the Valmont neighbors were concerned
about the sound that night, no one in my neighborhood was bothered by the sound whatsoever. It just
seems like these neighbors, our neighbors that are closer to the site than the Valmont neighbors, if we
are not bothered by the sound then it is hard for us to understand how they are especially when, if this
use permit is not granted, the alternatives which were stated to me by the attorney for LRF, is that if they
are not able to have the sound until 11 :00 p.m. on weekends and 10:00 on weekdays, the only
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 16 of68
alternatives are either to sell the property for development, which they were told they could fit 60 new
homes on the 80 acre property or the possibility of turning it into an industrial farm with cattle, chickens,
and pigs. Now, I will tell you, Taylor Glen and all the neighbors; nobody wants a pig farm; the smell,
the waste, all the problems with a pig farm even a chicken farm. So, faced with those two alternatives,
either the 60 new homes or the pig farm, we would definitely choose the rural event facility that they are
proposing. And, it is in keeping with exactly what Mr. Daniels was talking about in the Milton
Conservation Plan. Regarding the sound, the attorney had talk about the decibel level and it was
measured below 40 at the Taylor Road on the side of the farm and that was without the three walled
extension of the atrium and without the sound curtains. So, I think the sound would be below 40
decibels once they put that up and I don't see how they put that sound could be a problem especially
when the ordinance states that it can be 60-65 decibels. That is basically putting a stricter standard on
them and telling LRF that they can't have this music above 40 decibels but, I, Kathy Johnson, living in
Taylor Glen, I can blast my music to 60 or 65 decibels and I would be within the ordinance but they
can't do it at 40 decibels. It just doesn't seem fair and it doesn't seem just. And, with Constitution
Week this week, when we are supposed to follow the rule of law, being the ordinance with the decibel
level, it seems like we should give them the same standard we would give anybody else in Milton. So, I
also wanted to state that 60 new homes with 60 new possible leaf blowers at decibel levels of90-100
decibels would be far worse than 40 decibels of music occasionally. In conclusion, I know that many of
you are constantly asked by residents, can't you do something about all of this new development and all
of the bulldozers, and many times I do understand that you say, no, there is nothing I can do. These
people can develop their land and there is nothing I can do, but this time, with this farm, you can say,
yes, I can do something, and I did do something. I saved that farm from being another subdivision by
allowing the rural events facility. And, those Milton residents as well as I would thank you very much if
you could do that. Thank you for the time tonight.
William Willett, 11443 Valmont Lane, Milton, Georgia 30004
Good evening Council members, Mayor, and residents of Milton. I have pamphlets that I would like to
pass out to the councilmembers. I live in the Val mont subdivision located directly across from Little
River Farms on Taylor Road. I am here representing the majority of the Val mont residents. There are
several points we wish for you to consider when making your final decision about this permit. As a
resident of Val mont, we believe in the right of the property owner to use their property in the marmer
they see fit. While we are not thrilled about the thought of an event facility next door, with certain
restrictions, we do believe it could be an acceptable solution to allow the owner to keep his farm. One
of the reasons many of us moved to rural Milton is to have a peaceful place to escape our daily busy
lives. We appreciate the fact that our homes are far enough apart that we can't see inside our neighbor's
homes. This privacy is in our homes and our backyards and the peaceful tranquility here. Valmont has
been all those things and more. It has provided a peaceful atmosphere, large lots to enjoy privacy from
our neighbors, but still enjoy community and not be that far off from civilization. This permit in its
current state destroys the serenity that we love about our neighborhood and we would like the council to
deny the permit as it stands. It would change our way of life. To begin, I would like to address a
number of points that Mr. Kaye, the applicant's lawyer, has made that I feel have been misleading.
First, I would like to address the parcel of land that was removed from the permit. While this property is
32 acres ofland, it is long and narrow. Because of this, you can see from the first picture I provided to
you, there is a direct line of site to the event facility. As you can also see, the event facility is mostly
open. It is difficult to see from this picture but the only thing supporting the walls are the beams. At
least 80% of the building is open. So, when the Plarming Commission talks about placing the amplified
music within the pavilion, there is not much you are actually placing it in. You are just putting it inside
a few beams. In other words, at least one wall will have at least 90% of it open. There are only four
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 17 of68
studs holding up the roof of the pavilion. The land is also below the elevation of the pavilion of the
homes in Valmont allowing for a direct line of site. In addition, the land between Valmont and the event
facility is open pasture land with newly planted trees and provides no buffer or deterrent of sound
traveling from the applicant's pavilion to the Valmont subdivision. While 32 acres sounds like a lot of
land, because of the land's shape, elevation, lack of trees, it does not diffuse any sound from the pavilion
of the Valmont subdivision as they would like for you to believe. Secondly, Mr. Kaye has stated on the
record that during the sound test of the pavilion conducted for the Valmont residents, the music blasted
to a level that would not be tolerable for guests inside the pavilion. He stated that this level met to the
65 decibel limit at the edge of the LRF property. I guess, even perhaps, less than 40. During Mr. Ivey's
wedding on August 22, 2014, the music was played so loud that you could hear the words on my back
deck. And, if you look at the picture I gave you, you can see where the events facility is and I am
actually on the back of the subdivision; I could hear this on the back of my deck. So, you are talking
almost twice the distance of the Valmont homes directly beyond Taylor Road. And, if! can hear it
behind my house, you can only imagine that those individuals on the road could hear it within their
house. I am not a sound engineer. I don't know why Taylor Glen cannot hear it. But, for whatever
reason the way the acoustics were at that time, we could. And, that goes 30% of our residents could
hear inside their house and an additional 40% could hear it outside. And, that is including myself, I am
double as far away. And, I think that also goes back to show that Mr. Kaye is incorrect as far as what a
tolerable sound could be heard within the pavilion. Because when he tested it, they blasted the music to
the point that it would be painful for people in the pavilion to hear and you couldn't hear it at the
property line. And, yet, two weeks later, when there was a party, Mr. Ivey's wedding, it was played
much louder and you could hear it played all the way across the subdivision and into people's houses.
And, again, I don't know why Taylor Glen can't hear it. I am not a sound engineer. In addition, that
night, the music went on to, and I understand it was a private event, but the music went on past 2:00 a.m.
The police were called multiple times from several houses starting around 10:00 a.m. Those that could
hear inside their houses and it still continued past 2:00 a.m. That is one of the reasons we have problems
with the noise coming from that pavilion. I would like to talk about the email that Mr. Kaye sent to the
neighbors subdivision organizations trying to gain greater support for the facility, which, of course, he
has the right to do. But, the content of the emails was misleading. First, he states that the pavilion is
fully enclosed. You should have a copy of that email as well. And, that is misleading in trying to gain
support because the atrium is not fully enclosed and it goes for the same thing of the amplified music
that the Planning Commission was talking about. The atrium is almost fully open. It only has about 32
beams holding it up. Then, he suggested the only options for the property are to sell it for development
or starting an industrial farm. Not only does he never mention that the industrial farm will require
additional permits as well, he never mentions the potential obstacles he would encounter trying to get
permits to run a large farm that has a large stream running through the back of the property and dealing
with all the feces and everything else that would come from these animals and EPA problems. I believe
that these are only distractions trying to gain support and mislead other residents and drive them into
fear of trying to push the LRF facility to be fully enclosed so that they can maintain our current
environment. Lastly, the bulk of our concerns is what the impact of the rural facility might be for our
neighborhood. Mr. Kaye and the applicant have on a number of occasions asked for a professional
opinion on how our land value might be affected, what the noise level at the property line would be, and
an analysis of how the traffic might change. However, when it comes to the changes being made on the
pavilion, a design that he is speaking of adding a drape, adding the extra atrium walls, there is no sound
engineer required. He is just saying, with his best guess and his architects drawing up the additional
features, that it will abate the sound from our subdivision. We are supposed to have the professional
opinion but he is the professional representing his client and he is not even doing it for himself. These
points are not to attack the applicant, Mr. Ivey, or the lawyer, Mr. Kaye, I just wanted to make sure the
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 18 of68
council was aware of the opposing point of view and the mistakes that he is representing and misleading.
During the Planning Commission meeting on August 27,2014, the Valmont residents requested that on
weeknights, Sunday through Thursday, the facility would be closed at 9:00 p.m. with music and alcohol
stopping one hour earlier. We asked these constraints be extended one hour on Friday and Saturdays.
Many of us have children an must be up early in the moming and also a lot of us work downtown which
means we have to get up very early to beat the traffic which we all know is very bad on GA400.
Recently, this council approved a use permit for a similar operation pursuant to U13-04 located at 13895
Hopewell Road. This permit required the amplified sound to cease at 10:00 p.m. and the event cease at
11 :00 p.m. The Planning Commission used these defaults for this application, however, the majority of
the residents closest to this location actually approved of the use whereas the Valmont residents do not.
In addition, even though it is approved under a different permit, this location is enclosed. There is not
nearly the effect to the surrounding residents as it is an open facility which LRF is proposing. Please
take into consideration whether or not to apply the same time limits. The Valmont residents believe the
Planning Commission's recommendations of hours of operation are not suitable if the applicant refuses
to enclose the pavilion. While the applicant must meet the 65 decibel noise ordinance limit, we do not
believe that this is the full intent of the noise ordinance. In Section 46-13 7 of the Fulton County
ordinance, Section A states, it shall be unlawful for any person to continue or cause to be made or
continue any loud, unnecessary unusual noise or any noise which annoys, disturbs, injures or endangers
the comfort, repose, health, peace, or safety of others in the county. In Section 20-659 of the Milton City
ordinance, it states, it is hereby declared to be the city's policy to minimize the exposure to citizens to
the psychological dangers of excess noise and to protect, promote, and preserve the public health, safety,
and general welfare. It is the expressed intent of the city council to control the noise level in a manner
which promotes commerce, the use, value and enjoyment of property, sleep proposed, and quality of
envirorunent. Normal ambient sound within our subdivision is 40 decibels. At times, there are cars that
go by and it could be loud, but this is all passing. 95% of the time they go by within a few seconds.
These random sounds are temporary and not a constant sound invasion that lasts for hours. Where is the
value and enjoyment of property, sleep proposed, and quality of environment when you can't go outside
without hearing a party next door. 40 decibels is at a level that you might expect to have a light breeze,
hearing the rustling leaves, and have a general calm.
City Manager Lagerbloom
Mr. Mayor, I just want to bring to your attention that the person that is speaking has used more than half
of the time and you have at least another half dozen people who want to speak. It is totally your call as
to whether or not you will allow him to use up the 20 minutes or if you want to spread it around.
Mayor Lockwood
Please keep that in mind that we do have some more people that want to speak. I don't mind adding a
few extra minutes when we get to the end to give everyone a chance to speak.
William Willett
I ask you how will this not affect property values. If someone comes to an open house and hears a party
rocking and music playing in the background with lewd lyrics, how could this not influence their choice
to buy in our neighborhood? Who would want to listen to a neighbor's party with potentially offensive
lyrics a few days a week on their back deck if they had a choice to buy elsewhere? The applicant had a
realtor state there would be no impact to home values. But, that was when they did the sound test
originally when you couldn't even hear the noise at the Valmont residences. We asked our realtor, Dan
Bangs, and he does believe it would impact the home values of our properties. I would like to reference
something you wrote Mayor Lockwood back on December 1,2013 that, individual property rights are
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 19 of68
essential to a way of life. The City of Milton cannot and would not ever force a property owner into a
decision that negatively affects their land value. And, I know that was in reference to the building going
on but it is the same thing with this pennit that is going on here. If you allow them to do this in an open
facility , it will affect our land value. Nobody is going to want to go out to one house in our subdivision
and another one a mile down and listen to potential lewd lyrics they don ' t want their children exposed
to. Part of the reason we moved to Milton was to get away from that stuff. I think I will just follow up
to give other people some more time . Is that, we are not against the LRF facility. We think it is great
and we would love to see it succeed. The only thing we are asking is that they enclose it and keep the
noise to a minimum so it doesn't impact our lives and our home values.
Claudette Cunnold, 11453 Valmont Lane, Milton, Georgia 30004
Good evening. I am also here speaking on behalf of the neighborhood . I am a licensed interior designer
and I know that if you fully enclose this facility, it would really reduce the noise level. We have
presented that to Mr. Kaye. We have presented that to both Mr. Ivey's and requested that it be done.
They say that it is too expensive and that type of thing. It is really not. On the front end you would
incur the cost but ifthey would completely and fully enclose that facility , put in a sprinkler system
which is what they have argued is the most expensive portion of that, then we would not be hearing that
noise and hearing that sound. I will state that on the night that Mr. Ivey had his wedding, we did hear
lewd lyrics. If our children had been outside; these were completely inappropriate for our children to
hear. And, I know that you wouldn't want your children hearing these lyrics and they were clear as day.
They were not just muffled or anything. They were very clear on our properties. We ask that you do
keep at least the recommendations for the earlier hours that were presented by the Planning
Commission. We don't feel that this needs to be open any later. They don't need to serve alcohol any
later. And, they don't need to have the amplified sound outside of that facility. We request that the
facility be enclosed if they are going to do it. We are fine with them having an event facility if they take
into consideration our needs and things which they haven't at this point. The trees that they did plant
were very small and very short. It will take five years for those trees to reach a height that will have any
impact on the sound coming across due to the trees being planted at the lowest level of the property and
the event facility sitting up much higher on that property . So, please consider everything that we have
said here tonight as you vote on this . Thank you.
Jason Moore, 11503 Valmont Lane, Milton, Georgia 30004
I am going to use my time to read an email I sent to each of you on Thursday of last week. I am one of
the neighboring Valmont residents who would like to support the events facility. I was at the meeting
on August 13 th when they played the music and presented their plan. I listened to their attorney, their
realtor, their so-called sound expert, and the Ivey family members themselves. They talked about
changes from the original proposal as we all heard which one of the main things was a solid wall with
double paned windows and a fireplace on one end. At that point, the plan was still to leave the three
remaining walls open; meaning openings would be covered with plastic is what they said. When asked
why they couldn't enclose the entire facility on all four sides, they said it was due to cost; about
$200,000 was the number they said. Leaving there I felt that the family was truly trying to work with us
to minimize the impact to the community . The sound , which is my main concern, seemed to be
addressed . I would really prefer an enclosed facility with all amplified sound inside but maybe one end
would help. The 90 decibels inside which is way louder than they said it would ever be was barely
heard at the property line. Wait until this weekend, they said, when you will see a live event and it
won't even be this loud. So, I moved on and almost forgot about the planned wedding event until that
night and I will tell you, I didn't need a sound expert at my house to tell me that I can hear every word
of every song in my backyard at a real live event. Something they said would not be possible. I feel
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 20 of68
.,
there is some confusion at the Planning Commission meeting and again tonight the proposed facility is
not fully enclosed. They implied that and as you can see in the attached email, I sent the one, you
already have it on record, to the Taylor Glen residents to urge their support. They again, misrepresented
the actual proposal presented to the Planning Commission. Last Thursday as we closed in on the final
vote, they proposed adding sound dampening curtains to the opening on three sides of the building. It is
another positive step but still not to a standard that guarantees amplified sound remains inside the
building. This is another effort that should prevent sound travelling to our property. The problem is
there is no way to know for sure. And, if it turns out they are wrong again, it will be too late for the city
to do anything about it, in fact, you've heard that the police were not able to do anything that night. It is
my understanding that many of you have seen the bootylicious video. I live up the street and further
from the property and my backyard faces away. As you saw, what the applicant and their so-called
expert said, is very different from the way it actually happened. At the August meeting, Joe Ivey laid
out the expectations for the events facility. Their focus would be on high-end weddings in the $50,000
to $70,000 range. The goal is to have sixty or more events per year. That is $3 million to $4.2 million a
year or more of top line revenue. Similar event facilities in and around Milton that I can find that are
close are White Columns and Atlanta National clubhouses and the Yellow House Farm. All are fully
enclosed; four walls. Is a one-time $200,000 capital expense a lot to ask with an annual revenue target
of over $4 million a year? I don't want them to spend money wmecessarily but the only way to be sure
to prevent sound from disturbing the community is to enclose it all. I have three kids. My two youngest
are daughters, ages 5 and 8 and I would like you to put yourself in my shoes. Do you want to have to
explain the lyrics to bootylicious to your young girls? Do you want to have to listen to someone else's
music in your backyard every Friday, every Saturday when the weather is nice and you want to be
outside; hour after hour well past dark? As you know, there is an ordinance in Milton that limits the
sound to 65 decibels. Is the spirit of this ordinance to allow a commercial entity to make millions of
dollars each year while you and I give up our right to enjoy the property we own as it exists today?
Please push them to a compromise that takes the uncertainly out and fully enclose the facility. For the
following reasons:
• They have no proven plan to manage the sound; in fact, it continues to change even tonight.
First they said fully enclosed; now 20% openings and then something about sound curtains.
• Also, this decision sets a precedent of other event bars in our community including, as I
understand, the farm across the street from the Union.
• Lastly, enforcement, if this goes through, who is going to enforce this? There is nobody once it
is up. We learned that the other night.
Thank you for your consideration.
City Clerk Gordon read the following public comments into the record:
Laura Rencher, 1060 Birmingham Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
Preserve Rural Milton supports alternative uses for local farms to be sustainable in the face of rising
maintenance costs, rising property taxes, and pressure for development. Thus, we support the approval
of the event facility use permit for Little River Farm and we also support the hours they are requesting
for use.
Melissa Estes, 14716 Taylor Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
I own the property immediately adjacent to Little River Farms. I support the current Use Permit Request
because it is the only option currently being discussed that would not have a very negative impact on the
quality of life for those residents residing or commuting on Taylor and/or Batesville Roads. I was home
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 21 of68
the night of the wedding held at the New LRF Venue and could only hear music faintly when I was
outside in my year. Music played at the Val mont Pool/Clubhouse located directly across from my
driveway is much louder as is party noise coming from Taylor Glen on occasion. Not an Issue!
The negative impact of the possible alternatives would be so much worse!
1. Subdivision -worse traffic, years of construction noise and environmental distress, more
crowded schools
2. Pig Farm -eyesore, constant smell of animal waste, heavy impact on environment, decreased
property value for adjacent residential property owners.
Charles M. Fisher, 388 Taylor Glen Drive, Milton, Georgia, 30004
My name is Charlie Fisher and I live in the Taylor Glen Development on Taylor Road. I moved from
Massapequa, New York, 2 years ago to be near my older daughters and grandchildren. I also have a
daughter in Milton High School. One of the reasons we chose Milton was for its rural lifestyle and the
great schools in our city. I was only here a few months and I started to see trees being cut down and
roads for new developments. This was not what I had expected. We, who live on Taylor Road, are now
faced with the addition of at least 2 new developments on Taylor Road and the addition of another 25
acres for sale. The LRF has already had one event, a wedding, I drove down the road 4 times that night
and one time actually got out of my car. I did not hear any noises that were disturbing; in fact, I did not
know that there was music. The choices that we face tonight are indeed not easy:
Allow the music permit till 11 PM and have a great venue for weddings, and other events
Add another development with an additional 40 homes and at least 80 more cars, OR
Live on a road with a pig and chicken farm
The owners of LRF have done everything except but a brick wall around their property to keep the noise
out. I don't want to give people directions to my house and say tum on the comer of Batesville and
Taylor, you cannot miss the smell. That's what will happen if a pig/chicken farm goes up. Not only
will the people directly across in Valmont not be able to open their windows, I am sure they don't want
to look at pigs and chickens vs. what they have now. Or, they can look into the backyards of homes that
will be built and will probably then have to put up privacy shrubs.
I am asking that by granting this permit, you will be showing the other large landowners that you are
willing to work for the best interest of Milton and keep it rural. Otherwise, we will become not known
as a great place to live, but home to subdivisions and at this rate maybe allowing Starbucks and
McDonalds on every comer.
Lisa M. Crandall, 14700 Taylor Valley Way, Milton, Georgia 30004
My backyard shares the property line with the LRF.
I believe my house may be closest to the event facility being discussed at this meeting. I whole
heartedly approve the requested zoning variance and to allow the facility to have hours of operation that
would keep them competitive with other similar organizations. I would like it to go on record that I do
not hear the music from the last event at the facility and believe that if it was above the allowable
decibel, because of the close proximity of my property, I would have heard something. I feel the owners
of LRF have gone above and beyond to try and accommodate all neighboring subdivisions and would
love to see this event facility move forward.
City Clerk Gordon
And in opposition I have 3 public comments
Michael Jacobs, 224 Elmdale Court, Milton, Georgia 30004
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 20 J 4 at 6:00 pm
Page 22 of68
I believe this facility sets a bad precedent for our community. Opening a commercial bar in rural Milton
does not benefit or preserve anything.
Mark Carroll, 11538 Valmont, Milton, Georgia 30004
I do not support this permit passing.
Tom Doering, 11448 Valmont Lane, Milton, Georgia 30004
I would like to have this read into the public record as I am traveling on business and cannot attend the
council meeting concerning Little River Farms permit request for an event facility. I am concerned that
and not in favor of this permit request for Little River Farms. However, I understand that the permit
most likely will be passed and ask that the restrictions recommended by the Planning Commission be
included in the permit. These include:
Friday and Saturday -amplified music stops at 1 0:00pm events end at 11 :OOpm.
Sunday thru Thursday -amplified music stops at 9:00pm and events end at 10:00pm.
All amplified music is inside.
Alcohol ends when music ends.
No entrance or exit off of Taylor Road.
I also have concerns as to the type of events they plan on having (they are not very forthcoming). The
website that they are developing mentions Adventure events which include skeet and trap shooting. Mr.
Ivey did admit that some weddings may include groomsmen shooting shotguns on the property. We
would like the permit to not allow any type of gun events.
We would prefer that they fully enclose the Pavilion they have built, as this would greatly reduce noise
disturbance coming from events being held on the farm. Thank you, Tom and Teresa Doering
City Clerk Gordon
That is the end of public comment.
Mayor Lockwood
Okay. Alright, so we are at the end of Public Comment. At the Public Hearing obviously the applicant
can come up and answer if council has any questions I explanations as well as staff if we have comments
from staff. I will just start and I see issues from both sides. I will say from my side of the table, we just
continually, part of it from our presentation from Mr. Daniels and whatnot, get emails about people just
moving here because of the way Milton is and they do not want any more development. So I do see this
is a very good option. I visited Mr. Ivey several times over the last several years when I was actually
running for Mayor. I stopped in there and looked around the property. It's a beautiful piece of property
and beautiful to drive by. I think it is the type of stuff that people move here, they drive through Milton
and they see properties like that and that is what attracts them to it. That being said, I also understand
concerns from the neighbors. I am not a big fan of when somebody is starting a business or a private
business for us to put regulations on them or tell them how to do their business whether it's hours or
type of building or what not, unless we are willing to guarantee they are going to be financially
successful...that is the private market. But on the flipside, we also have to have concerns on how it
impacts other people. In hearing all the comments emails which we have gotten a lot of, I would say
99% of people actually favor this application use, it's just the concerns with noise. Some people are
concerned with noise that we heard from tonight. I am going to put our Staff on the spot in a minute.
But I don't think we can just arbitrarily say well it is too loud or not, I think we will have to use our
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 23 of68
ordinance. So I want to ask a couple questions on our sound ordinance and what we can do on that. As
far as asking the applicant to enclose the building that is telling the applicant how to spend their money
and run their business when we are not sitting here saying we are going to guarantee it would work. I
think we have to look at it from the other side to where this is our ordinance and you have to meet these
requirements however you want to do it. And that maybe, if it's the sound ordinance, it may be you
have to change your speakers around it may be you have to direct things other ways and we can enforce
that. That is the question I would have or Chris maybe you can help get that answer. Can you explain
the 65 decibel sound limit, is that on the edge of the property or would that be on someone's property
line or somebody refresh my memory on that.
City Manager Lagerbloom
We have 2 different abilities to enforce noise in Milton. If you recall, we have what we call a Real
Noise component as well as Perceived Noise component. When you start to deal with the Real Noise
component that is where you take a decibel meter and you would measure the sound that would be
transferred at the property line -that is the important place for measurement and what sound is at the
property line itself. In this district maximum permissible sound levels in residential received and
emitted are at 65 decibel. Now I point you also to the section of our code that even if the sound
measures the sound threshold isn't being met but it would be perceived to be a nuisance we wrote that
into the code as well because sometimes you can't identify everything as either black or white context.
At some point we have to take somebody who we have on our team that is charged with using their
discretion to enforce the code every day of the week and that's people in our police department and code
enforcement department. To be able to go to a location where a noise is occurring and then they can
evaluate it from a reasonable nuisance perspective so we got several different options. I don't want you
to think that it is like the speed limit where it is 45 and soon as you are at 46 you are violating the code
(where you ARE violating the code at 46) but just because we have a Noise Ordinance that says 65 at 66
very obviously there is a violation, but I would argue certainly that the police using their discretion.
There are probably some circumstances where 55 would be considered to be a nuisance sound based
upon a set of criteria that existed that we could not even predict, that would just have to be evaluated at
the time that somebody responded to it. I don't know ifl answered your question or not but that's how
the noise ordinance can be applied.
Mayor Lockwood
But that would be measured at the property line or at the street basically?
City Manager Lagerbloom
Yes, sir.
Councilmember Hewitt
At who's property line, the applicants or the complainants?
City Manager Lagerbloom
It would be measured at the persons property who complains, routinely they share one of those things.
In this case it could be a couple of properties over so it would be the person who would be the victim of
this thing so it would be measured at their line. We would want to get as close as we could to the line of
the facility but if we do not necessarily have access to that location. Yes, this one is kind of interesting
because there is not this commonality of a border between it and everything else.
Councilmember Hewitt
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 24 of68
..
Along the 2 different measurements you said you have the actual physical measurement or an instrument
measurement and the nuisance, if it is at 66 like you said which is one decibel over, is our officer
required to write the citation or try to mitigate it at that point?
City Manager Lagerbloom
The goal would be to bring it into compliance. That's if the time issue is not being out of compliance
but simply the volume, our first attempt would always be to say it's over bring it back into compliance.
We have an example of that on Highway 9 with a restaurant where they basically had to set their volume
dial with a little piece of tape so they would know if they went beyond the tape they were in violation of
the ordinance.
Mayor Lockwood
We have another example here in the City of Milton, my daughter's graduation party at our house. At
11: 15 the police walked up and told us to tum the music down. So that is something the officer's first
response probably would be if it's excessive or over the limit or perceives it to be a nuisance then it
would go over to the facility and ask them to tum it down, is that correct?
City Manager Lagerbloom
Sorry, say it again.
Mayor Lockwood
If there is a complaint or a perceived nuisance whether it is over the limit or not, the first response would
be for the officer to typically go over to the facility and ask them to tum the music down?
City Manager Lagerbloom
Yes, again we give those people the discretion to use their discretion to the best they feel the situation
warrants. In this particular circumstance, yes it makes great sense for us to be the peace keeper of the
deal and try to bring the event and the community back into compliance with the code rather than going
on a ticket writing campaign. We reserve the right to issue those citations, if in fact, it were to become a
repetitive thing or a multiple infraction in one night then that might rise to the level of taking additional
enforcement action because simply trying to keep the peace did not work.
Mayor Lockwood
This is more to the concern for the folks who would worry that there would be repeated offenses or there
is nothing that the city could do about it, what would that process be? I am not just picking on this one
but if we have a facility and they continually were breaking the law so to speak with the sound, what
would happen?
City Manager Lagerbloom
That is one of those questions where I have to give you an "it depends answer". And it really does
depend on how soon those violations would occur, whether or not we went through some type of
analysis to determine that any rights had been vested in the use permit. If you were to issue one but we
have all sorts of different warnings --from the straight warning to the municipal court code violation
through all sorts of injunctions or other stronger enforcement type actions. I feel pretty confident that
Ken would obviously guide us through that process but there are multiple layers of things we could do.
City Attorney Ken Jarrard
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Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 25 of68
-,
That's right Mr. Mayor, in addition to 'just the standard' citations, warnings and those sorts of city corp
prosecutorial things which are legitimate and could be effective to the extinct those aren't effective, the
city would have the right under the strength of its zoning code particularly if its granted to code, to
vindicate its rights under that zoning code. You could bring an action by the city for injunctive relief in
the civil courts to prevent future noise concerns by way of order of the court punishable upon contempt.
Mayor Lockwood
I want to ask the applicant --Is the applicant willing in the interest of being a good neighbor and abiding
by the rules, understand if you are over the noise ordinance or it's a nuisance then it's called and
processed, are you willing to work on it and tum the music down?
Rich Kaye
I think we should be slapped for it. Our position is that we are going to respect the law and we believe
we can within the parameters of now putting this extension with the curtains -we do not believe it is
going to be an issue. And if we do break the code we expect to be punished for it.
Mayor Lockwood
It sounds like that we got several comments that the initial event even though it was a private event was
nOiSy.
Rich Kaye
That was a mistake, and it's like your party with your daughter. It was a private event. We are going to
be regulated by the hours of operation. It's going to be a professional operation. It's not a private party
for Mr. Ivey or his family. It's going to be used as an events facility. We are going to treat this like any
other professional events facility where when last call is made last call is made. When the music is to be
off at 11 :00 p.m. the music will be turned off at 11 :OOp.m., when people are out by 12:00 a.m. we are
going to shuffle everybody out to get out. We are going to operate this like a professional facility . Ifwe
don't, we expect you to punish us for it. We expect that. We are going to operate this according to the
law. We are going to operate this according to what the permit says and we will work with you and will
work with anybody we can, There has been a couple of things said we thought it was to be fully
enclosed, well we thought it was going to be fully enclosed and then the Fire Marshall said "No" -got
to have to 20% open. So we tried to deal with that by putting an opening in such a way that it's where
the trees are full grown and we are going to put a burrier there "a curtain" which is heat resistant, fire
proof, which would block the sound from that 20% opening. We are still trying to figure out now
because we are doing the extension of the wall ---do we need at all to put two 20% openings in that
extension? The ones that are on the atrium, as it is right now, may not require that.
Councilmember Mohrig
I guess it comes down to, just to bridge off from what you were saying, Chris, let's say there were, and
again I am not predicting that there are going to be repeated violations but I know that is the concern of
the Valmont subdivision. In the case that we have repeated sound violations or whatever, do we, as a
council, have the option to revoke or, I guess, go through the court system to pull the use permit if it
goes that direction? Because, I have seen the other note that says, once we pass this there is no more
power, we can't do anything about it. I guess, I would like to have a comment on that.
City Manager Lagerbloom
Let me start that one and then I will tum that one over to the City Attorney. And, again, I hate to give
you this kind of answer but I am going to have to give it to you, it depends. And, it depends largely on
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 26 of68
where that point and time is from the time that you would issue a use permit. So, let's hit fast forward
for the purpose of an illustration, not suggesting that the council will get there tonight, but if you issue a
use permit to allow for this use, a substantial financial exposure because of the ability that you granted
there is some assurance that the business can operate, we are probably going to take you down a
different road than a revocation if there are repeated violations. We are probably going to take you more
down the road of the civil court process and some type of injunction from the court that we could then
enforce. If that is not the case, and repeated violations will happen then early on in the life cycle of this
event facility if we went through an analysis and we could feel comfortable bringing it back in front of
the council in some type of a public process or public hearing a request to revoke, you certainly haven't
given up the right to be able to do that. Because, as you know, the issuance of a use permit is using your
discretion in a zoning matter and this council and any other future council can do or undo. So, that is
what is at stake here tonight. We would want to make sure as you look to us to give you a good course,
if you say, gosh Chris, this really isn't working and we need to figure out how to undo it, I am going to
have to kind of hit pause at that moment in time and work with the city attorney to figure out what
condition exists so we give you a good recommendation.
Councilmember Mohrig
So, in good faith, we would hope that if this does pass, that the applicant in fact would be trying to work
in being a good neighbor but I guess the concern is that this will be out there forever. That is not the
case. There are options to go through the court system as well as coming back before this councilor
whoever is on the council in the future.
City Manager Lagerbloom
If there is repeated non-compliance, there are different options, yes.
CouDcilmember Lusk
Rick must have been reading my notes. He stole my question. However, I had another point. Up until
this point we have been talking about sound transmission and types of infractions and when they occur
and when they don't occur based on decibel levels. I think we are past that point since the applicant has
stated that he is going to install sound attenuation blankets in those openings; however, from what you
have said here a couple of minutes ago, would the extension to the existing structure there; is that going
to require by virtue of the state building code or fire code that you put more openings on that east wall?
Rich Kaye
Yes, the three sided, we don't know yet. It is really going to be up to Matt Marietta. What we have
done is that we have; the design that we submitted for the extension is a little bit narrower than the walls
of the present atrium. Now, that may be considered a new wall and, therefore, we may need 20%. Or,
he may consider the whole thing one wall and we won't have to put any additional cut outs. The wall on
the rear, we will definitely have to have a 20%.
Councilmember Lusk
You are talking about the north wall?
Rich Kaye
Correct; the one that is facing Taylor Road, east, yes that is facing Taylor Road . We are going to put it
on the northern part of that atrium. So, when the opening that is there, in the center we are going to have
a fireplace, and will be closed over here which is the path to Valmont, but over here there are trees and
woods where that 20% is so naturally that will block it without the curtains. But, our intent is to put up
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 27 of68
those curtains there. If we are required to have two openings on each side, then we would put that
dampening material there as well.
Councilmember Hewitt
Just on the addition?
Rich Kaye
Yes.
Councilmember Lusk
That is not what I heard. If there is an opening on the existing elevation ...
Rich Kaye
Yes, but the openings that are there are not the 20% openings. It is an open; the atrium itself right now
is open throughout. Our anticipation is with the addition that the rear part of the atrium would be totally
enclosed where the music would be. That is our desire to do that and that is the proposal right now with
the building people.
Council member Lusk
What test data do you have on these sound attenuation blankets?
Rich Kaye
I have, if you will permit me one second, these are two different companies that have curtains that do 20
and 25 in terms of the STC, the sound dampening qualities of the decibels. So, they will do a 20 to 25.
One is 20 and one is 25. So, again, if we think about the test we did with the neighbors and at the Taylor
Road boundary line without the enclosure all we had were vinyl sheets just like you would see on the
top of a roof that is being repaired. At the boundary of Taylor Road, what we had was 45. If you went
across the street to the Valmont property, all you had, well, it didn't even register 40 and most decibel
meters don't register under 40 so we had no registration at all on the other side of Taylor Road. So,
even if it was open and exposed with just those vinyl sheets, it was at 45 versus 65 which is the code.
So, what we are saying is that by enclosing this, what we are going to do is offer a much larger buffer, a
thicker buffer, plus the curtains will also guarantee, although we were only at 45 before, we will be able
to reduce that even more. So, that is really what we are trying to do is reduce it even beyond what could
possibly be required by the Milton code section.
Councilmember Lusk
So, are these blankets going to totally seal off those openings on the east side of the structure?
Rich Kaye
On the side that faces the Valmont subdivision. So, yes, to the extent, the side that faces the Valmont
subdivision would be 20% open and to the extent that there might be some reverberations for the sides
we might have to, if we have to have openings on the extension then we would cover those with the
curtains as well.
Councilmember Lusk
Totally seal the openings?
Rich Kaye
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 28 of68
Well, to the extent that we can still pull it back for safety reasons for fire but yes, if the door is eight feet
wide they would be 9 ~ -10 feet, whatever it would be to do that.
Councilmember Kunz
So, in order to achieve the; is it 65 at the roadway, the sound decibel, your music is going to be 90 right
inside ...
Rich Kaye
At 90 it was only 45.
Councilmember Kunz
At 90 it was only 45 at the roadway? So, you are saying if you put the acoustical curtains there then that
45 becomes 25?
Rich Kaye
No, it would be less than 45, that's for sure. So, what I am thinking that again, when you went across
the street at Taylor Road without those additions we are talking about it didn't even register forty. So , I
am saying with this additional, I can't guarantee you exactly what it going to be but it will certainly be
below, significantly below the 45 that it was without them.
Councilmember Mohrig
Do you have the specific width of what that 20% would be on that east wall facing Valmont?
Rich Kaye
Is it 8 feet high and then 8 feet 4 inches wide, Kyle? Kyle is our contractor so he would know.
Kyle Ingram, 2015 Brickton Station, Buford, GA 30518
I am the owner of Remrock Property Restoration. I am a general contractor. I think that really what the
fire marshal is looking for is not so much the height, probably the minimum height is in there
somewhere, but I think he is looking more for lineal footage so there is proper egress in the event of
some kind of a fire so the height is actually going to be lowered to help suppress the sound with transom
windows. The opening on that wall is going to be combined approximately about eight feet.
Councilmember Mohrig
So, eight feet wide and possibly eight feet tall so it is not going to be open all the way up with curtains to
the top of the roof line, you are actually going to have either a window or solid wall. Do you intend to
insulate the walls of that structure where the music will be located?
Kyle Ingram
It currently was not going to be insulated because it is not conditioned but it could certainly be insulated.
It would be minimal cost.
Mayor Lockwood
I am speaking for myself; I am one out of seven. I support this use, the use of this property and the
event facility versus what could be ultimately done on that property so I think it is a good thing that is
why I support it. I am saying that, this may pass or it might not, but I am in support of it. Mr. Kaye,
does your applicant realize that if this passes and the council supports it that we are also going to look to
you, you guys have got to do what you have to do to meet the law and not to be a burden on the
--r~--------~------~~
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
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neighbors. We can sit here and tell you we can put this and that and put insulation here and there but if
that doesn't work, we don't want to put that on us. We want to put the burden on you that if this is
approved, we hope it is a successful business venture, but the burden is on you to make sure that it is
done right and it is not negatively impacting the neighbors.
Rich Kaye
Absolutely, Mr. Mayor. This property has been in their family for 70 years and they want to continue to
live there. They want to be good neighbors. They want to continue to live in a great environment and
help the city if it fits within your plan. Like I have said, if we are bad then we need to be punished for it.
It is as simple as that. We accept responsibility and we know that you are giving us a tremendous
amount of responsibility. We greatly appreciate that and we respect that.
Councilmember Kunz
I have a question for the applicant and a couple of questions for staff and a conunent, I had a thought.
You mentioned that you might be willing to self-govern the sound decibel at the last hour before close.
Could you please explain that again?
Rich Kaye
Well, to the extent that you wanted us to we would agree to limit the sound rather than 60 at that hour
that we would agree to 45.
Councilmember Kunz
Okay, and then for the staff just a couple of questions. One of the conunents on the opposing side was
concerned about skeet shooting and fire arms and things like that. I didn't hear that from the applicant.
No one has ever discussed that. What are the regulations that we have on that? Are there any thoughts
or concerns?
Mayor Lockwood
That would probably fall under our ordinances regarding firearms. Some properties you are allowed to
some you are not.
Councilmember Kunz
Just explain that as well.
City Manager Lagerbloom
State law is the one that governs firearms. To the extent that the required distance from the property line
was adhered to and the projectile that was fired didn't leave the property, there is the ability to use
firearms on land in Milton today. I don't know that it would necessarily, recreational type shooting like
this, Milton wouldn't have anything in its code of ordinances but it would be governed by state law.
Councilmember Kunz
And, my next question is that there were concerns about the police having been called at the wedding
and nothing happened on that night. Do we have any history of that?
City Manager Lagerbloom
I don't and I wasn't there. I can surmise that the police responded and either evaluated that there was
not an actual occurring violation of the code or to the extent that they identified a violation, they were
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22 , 20J4 at 6:00 pm
Page 30 of68
able to bring it into compliance and didn 't need to take anymore official action. I don 't know because I
wasn 't there but it is likely one of those two circumstances presented themselves.
Councilmember Kunz
I saw in the request as weB and you were asking for and I wrote this down also that Friday through
Sunday music ends at 11 :00 closes at 12 :00 then from Monday through Thursday music ends at 10:00
closes at 11 :00 during the school year and then during non-school year times the music ends at 11 :00
and closes at 12:00. Do I have that right?
Rich Kaye
One of the things that is important to us is that Sunday in the Jewish faith people don't get married on
Fridays or Saturdays. They normaBy get married on Sundays . So, I think by limiting the time period
that we are open on Sunday we would limit that sector of our potential business.
Councilmember Kunz
My comment is that I tend to agree with you on the use of the land. I think that it is important that we
preserve the rural land somehow we need to be able to find creative ways to do that. Obviously , we
want to make sure that everything is working to the benefit of everybody but we need to be creative in
the solutions as weB and be reasonable to our current code as it currently stands. But , we want to make
sure that everybody is a good neighbor. We mentioned that before. Just an idea of a motion not
neces sarily the one we want to go with but just thinking about it , I ' m not so sure I agree on the Sunday
aspect from a business perspective I could but I know we have a lot of people that are going to work the
next morning and kids, just thinking about it, but we have an ordinance where a permit that goes music
from Friday through Saturday, music decibel is 65 until 10:00 then music at 45 to 11 :00 and close at
12:00. That way you are self-governing on the decrease of the decibels. Then Sunday through
Thursday music is 65 to 9:00; music at 45 until 10:00; close at 11 :00 during the school year . Then,
Sunday through Thursday music is 65 at 9:00; music at 45 until 11 :00 ; so it is two hours, and then close
at 12:00 during the summer. Just as an idea , alcohol would of course shut down the same time as
music?
Rich Kaye
We would shut down 15 minutes before music.
Councilmember Kunz
Exactly , and , I don't know from an ordinance perspective if we can require acoustical curtains. I don't
know if we can do any certain ones but can we require them; I don 't know, I am just asking the question.
And, can we have no speakers facing east as well. And, those are just questions.
Rich Kaye
I would just say that , and I know you didn 't direct it at me, but in terms of how the set-up is, it would be
impractical for us to do it the other way . And , then also with the limitations that are going to be placed
on us we would not be able to do that. If we were blasting them that way we would not be able to live
up to your expectations with respect to the sound.
Mayor Lockwood
We need to be careful because if we start putting parameters and specifications on what they do and it
doesn 't work then it comes back on us. In general , we need to say this is the end result ; you guys need
to figure out how to make that happen.
~----------~~~--------~----------------------------------------------------------------,
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 31 of68
Councilmember Longoria
To add to what you have already said, Joe, it is one of those things that is difficult because you can
certainly see both side of the argument. I am very much in favor of Little River Farms existing the way
it does today and I want to support the Ivey's in tenns of what they are trying to do and applaud them for
doing that as opposed to just rushing out and selling the property and loosing what Little River Farms
means to the City of Milton. At the same time , I certainly have concerns about the property owners at
Valmont and Taylor Glen, although I think Taylor Glen is benefiting from the fact that there are a whole
bunch of trees between Little River Farms and their property, not in all cases but in a lot. I walked the
property a couple of weekends ago just to try to see if I could figure out what was going on here and the
one thing that I do know and the one thing that I think is covered by our ordinances is that keeping the
noise level down at the property line for Little River Farms it has to be the measure that we use. We
don't need to be running around all different places and further away trying to measure what sound is.
Sound is a very strange thing. I am no sound engineer but I studied a lot of physics in college and it is a
lot like water. Sometimes you just don't understand how that water gets to where it gets. But sound
travels in very interesting ways and I have no problem believing that people on their back porch behind
the front line of homes in the Valmont subdivision could hear exactly what was going on. So, the
burden is going to be on the Little River Farm to manage the sound and whatever we come up with in
tenns of restrictions and decibel levels and times and stuff like that, I am sure we are going to debate a
little bit more but I think that is something that is going to have to be taken up by Little River Fanns.
But, I did want to address one question that got asked but didn't seem to get addressed real well and that
is the enforcement issue. We had one of our citizens say, "once this pennit is provided then who is
going to enforce it?" Implying that there is going to be no way to enforce it. And, I just want to make
sure that everybody understands that, and I would like you Chris to weigh in on this, that we don't have
a problem in the city today enforcing our ordinances.
City Manager Lagerbloom
That is a correct statement.
Councilmember Longoria
So, any ordinance that we pass or any pennit that we provide I have no doubt that the city is going to be
able to enforce exactly the law that is set up to govern that. Is that correct?
City Manager Lagerbloom
That is correct. And, just to continue that discussion, we have examples of all levels of enforcement of
that.
Councilmember Longoria
Oh, I know that we do.
City Manager Lagerbloom
From things that are just a quick and easy fix to things that spend a longer period of time and many
orders of the court.
Councilmember Longoria
And, a lot of times, people don't understand all that goes on within the city. And, I just wanted to make
sure that our citizens understand that there is no problem in enforcing our ordinances.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 32 of68
City Manager Lagerbloom
The thing that does though, and I will highlight this, just because since you have opened the door I can
walk through it quickly, is because it is easier for us to enforce the codes and ordinances that we have as
opposed to slight deviations that we have from them. For example, it would hard for our staff to go out
with code enforcement and say that the council conditioned them to not point speakers in a western
direction. That is hard to enforce. Number one, it is hard to interpret and number two it is hard to figure
out exactly for all those nuances for someone who has not sat through this meeting and would not know
that was a condition; that is hard to do. But, to say 65 versus, 60 versus 45; that is easy to do and
however they get to that is on them.
Councilmember Longoria
Joe made the point and I was going to make the point had he not made it that ours is just to say follow
the ordinances. Somebody else's job is to figure out how to do that.
Mayor Lockwood
That is my point. If we start telling them to do this or that; then all that applicant has to say if there is a
problem is, "hey, the city told us to put the speakers this way and put this blanket it and so we did
everything so we don't have to do anything else." You guys will have to self-govern yourselves
knowing that the city is going to come in and enforce the laws.
Councilmember Mohrig
I did go out and you and the Ivey's were kind enough to take us around and answer some questions
while we were out there. The new pavilion or the new walls that you are going to put up; the intent right
now is that where you are going to have music located?
Rich Kaye
Correct.
Councilmember Mohrig
And, I think what you had said without saying where you were going to point the speakers; the idea was
actually to send the sound in the opposite direction.
Rich Kaye
Absolutely.
Councilmember Mohrig
I guess piggybacking what Joe said, I know from the past we had issues with another establishment, we
went back and forth with, the city was not afraid to actually go and enforce the ordinances because it
was impacting the neighbors. Again, if this passes, we hope that you will really work toward making
sure that there are not any negative impacts to the neighbors.
Rich Kaye
Absolutely.
Councilmember Hewitt
You said that we could perhaps have civil penalties and the court could order an injunction. What is an
example of what that injunction could be other than follow the rules. Is it that we can say you can't
amplify the music because .. .I know that is hard to answer what the court would say ...
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 33 of68
City Attorney Jarrard
A lot of times it is not a matter that they would say anything different than what the city court might say;
it is a matter of the potential consequences if you do not. There may be a fine in city court but there may
be something much more severe if it is in fact a court of record that has placed a cease and desist order
or an in juncture relief on someone. Again, that is nothing that I think the City of Milton would want to
use as a first line of enforcement but, on the other hand, the City Manager is correct, this city has a
history of being willing to take the long view with respect to having individuals coming into compliance
with the code even if we have to drop a little bit of money to get there. So, it is a function of having to
show proof to the court, I would have to show a nuisance that needed to be abated or a violation of codes
and then we would ask for relief by way of court order and that typically gets folks attention even if a
$500 fine doesn't which is my point. It is an element of magnitude.
Councilmember Hewitt
And, then one other thing for the applicant; is gunfire really necessary for a successful facility?
Rich Kaye
Well, you know, Joe lives on the property. And, I have fired guns over there before and we would
continue to do that. It is a facility that we live there, we own the property, we consider using firearms,
yes. We are under the same restrictions, if we have a dove hunt or whatever we have, we aren't going to
be firing over to Valmont or other homes.
City Manager Lagerbloom
Councilmembers, ifI could give you just a little bit of input on that as well, in light of this House Bill 60
that we have had to make so many modifications for, it is reasonably strong language in that code that
suggests that we shouldn't try to enforce any type of firearm regulation outside of what laws exist at the
state level at this point and if you might want to do that we are going to guide you away from that just
because of this new law that has caused all these changes to occur. It is easier now to shoot guns
everywhere in Georgia at this point.
Councilmember Mohrig
And, it doesn't necessarily have to be pellets going out of a shotgun; you could actually do blanks just
for the sake of sound. Not that we would regulate that but. ...
Rich Kaye
Also, too, we are very mindful of potential liability and a lot of just the normal business types of
concerns will govern our behavior. The same with holding the keys after we have determined that
somebody mayor may not have had too much to drink, there are laws that give us a tremendous amount
of liability involved; if there is shooting, tremendous amount of liability involved. So, we are very
mindful of the parameters that the law places on us and also insurance concerns and that sort of thing so
we think in that respect it will be self-regulated.
Councilmember Lusk
I would like to make one general statement here; you are looking at a use like this, it fits in with our
mission statement of the city that we shall preserve the rural character of the city, having said that, we
have been talking about nuisances and the different forms of nuisances and one of them, the neighbors
have talked about it before, the lewd and crude music that has been played. If we resolved the sound
transmission issue whether you play that type of music or not should be contained. I am not a prude
Regular Meetin g of the Milton Cit y Council
Monda y, September 22 , 2014 at 6 :00 pm
Page 34 of68
having been in the navy and spent most of my life in the construction industry there is nothing I haven 't
heard but I agree with the neighbors, I don't think young children should be exposed to that.
Rich Kaye
Absolutely.
Councilmember Lusk
I would just ask that you pay attention to what is being transmitted out there in respect to the
neighborhood. I'm sure y ' all have children too or going to have children. I just suggest that you keep
that in mind.
Rich Kaye
Absolutely.
Councilmember Kunz
I will make a motion to approve the consideration of U 14-02 for 14505 Batesville Road , by LRF Milton ,
LLC -To Operate a Rural Event Facility with Staff Recommendations with the change that hours of
operation and music decibel levels shall be the following: On Sunday through Thursday music decibels
will be at 65 until 9:00 p.m. then music decibels be at 45 until 10:00 p.m. and it will close at 11 :00 p .m.
during the school year and then during the non-school year from Sunday through Thursday music at 65
until 9:00 p.m. the music at 45 decibels until 11 :00 p.m. closes at 12 :00 p.m . and then on Friday and
Saturday music at 65 until 10:00 p.m. then music at 45 decibels until 11 :00 p.m. and close at 12:00 p.m.
and, of course, alcohol ending 15 minutes prior to music being turned off.
City Manager Lagerbloom
I was with you through the Sunday through Thursday not during school; did you have some Friday
through Saturday?
Councilmember Kunz
Friday and Saturday was music at 65 decibels until 10 :00 p .m. and 45 decibels until 11 :00 p.m. and shut
down at 12 :00 p.m.
Councilmember Mohrig
Second.
Mayor Lockwood
We have a motion and a second for approval with the stipulations that were read into the record
regarding the times and the sound levels. I have a question for staff, Ken, legally if our sound ordinance
is 65 can we tum around and change it for one facility and drop it down to 45? Is that legal and fair ?
City Attorney Jarrard
Well, I think to the extent you are asking whether or not you can condition special use permits to a
sound level that is different than your code, I think that is part of your authority as part of your
mitigation of the impact on the adjacent property owners. Whether that is the way you want to do it ; it is
a policy decision. If you are asking a general question of do we have the right; yes, we have the right to
make our regulations a little more strict in this context , yes.
Councilmember Hewitt
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 35 of68
Could you repeat the non-school year weekday?
City Manager Lagerbloom
What I have captured here and since you have asked that at some point we will need to clarify whose
school year so we would want to identify what school that is. But, what I captured here is Sunday
through Thursday at 65 decibels until 9:00 p.m.; 45 until 11 :00 p.m.; close at 12:00 p.m.
Councilmember Kunz
Correct. Sunday through Thursday.
City Manager
Sunday through Thursday not during the school year. So, essentially Sunday through Thursday during
the summer.
Mayor Lockwood
I think we will have to limit it to the Fulton County school system.
City Manager Lagerbloom
And, if this motion goes somewhere we will have to ......I'm putting words in your mouth but I am
assuming you meant the Fulton County school system.
Councilmember Kunz
I did.
Councilmember Mohrig
Going back to the original recommendations, did it include the stipulation of the three sided additional
structure with the openings of 20% and the curtains?
City Manager Lagerbloom
Robyn, can you point to that?
Robyn MacDonald, Principal Planner
If you go to page two of the report, we have the Planning Commission recommendations and they stated
in (c) a condition of amplified sound and music shall be located within the enclosed portion of the
atrium. They didn't speak to which direction just within the enclosed portion.
Councilmember Mohrig
Again, I don't want to get into the regulation of where they need to place; they would figure out how to
do that so they would meet the sound requirements; the question is; is that three-sided structure that will
only have a maximum of 20% opening; is that part of the agreement?
City Manager Lagerbloom
I have to ask the question because the motion that was made specified staffs conditions to be included.
The Planning Commission made that recommendation so at this point the motion that exists does not
incorporate the Planning Commission's recommendations. So, to answer your question, I don't believe
what you have asked, if it is incorporated, I do not believe that we captured that in the staff conditions.
Mayor Lockwood
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 36 of68
A concern I have, it is easy for us to sit here now and say at 9:00 p.m. drop this and this to different
levels but a couple of different things, one, from the applicant's perspective does that impact their
business; are we negatively impacting their business unreasonably? Number two is just enforcement
and it is fine for us to talk here but with 30 plus some odd officers out there and if there is an issue and
they get the call, how do we; do they pull out a book and say, "on this property and address the sound
should be 45 from this hour to that hour."
Councilmember Longoria
While I am in agreement with that Joe, did we ever get a second?
Mayor Lockwood
Yes, we have a motion and a second.
Council member Longoria
I just wanted to make sure . I was writing down decibels and times. J agree with you, Joe. I think all of
a sudden we are creating a quieter zone inside Milton and something doesn't make sense there. Either
our sound ordinance is good or it is not good. If it is not good, we need to change it. If it is good, it
needs to be able to stand up and work. Now, I think the challenge is going to be doing what needs to be
done from an engineering point of view to keep the decibel levels where they need to be at the property
line. But, I think that is plenty of enough of a challenge not to introduce depending on what time of day
it is the changes.
Mayor Lockwood
I agree, and the applicant has said in their studies and the tests they did that they were good at 45 at the
property line so the burden would be on them to make sure that happens.
Councilmember Hewitt
I think the only difference is that I believe that the applicant has imposed the limit; they said they would
take the 45 at the additional hour. Along those points, I have a little heartburn at the 12:00 a.m. closing
during the week. I just think that is a little bit too late.
Councilmember Longoria
I think the applicant can impose anything they want to upon themselves as long as they stick within the
law.
Mayor Lockwood
That would be my suggestion, because if we start, and to Ken's point, we can do that, but where do we
get to a point; our police have to have a special handbook when they drive around. Okay, this address
it's 9:00 p.m. or this one is 11 :00 p.m. I think what I want to portray is that number one I like the use. I
think this is something that when people drive through Milton it is what attracts them. I like to drive by
there and I believe people in Valmont like to look at that too. Now, there is a little give and take. So,
my point is, I want to put on the applicant that you have to be a good neighbor and we are going to hold
you to our law and you have to figure out how to be a good neighbor and obviously you want to be a
good neighbor because your residents may send business there . You don't want to have everybody in
the city not like you. So, I think we have to come up with something that works but is reasonable for the
folks that live around there .
Councilmember Kunz
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Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6 :00 pm
Page 37 of68
As the one that made the motion I've got to ask the question, I mean what if we are helping the applicant
from a self-imposed recommendation by having the ordinance according to what he was asking for
himself, that is great, I don't see why that is a problem when we just told our residents that we have no
problem enforcing the code. I don't think we have a problem enforcing what we have to have here we
just need to make sure we do the right thing in regards to it. I can agree with Burt's heartburn on 12:00
p.m. during the summer too; I am agreeable to amending that as well.
Mayor Lockwood
What is the direction on the decibels; the 45/65? Where is council on that?
Councilmember Hewitt
I am in support of the tiered system and an earlier closing time during the week.
Councilmember Mohrig
I guess I would say the same thing because again the applicant is the one that said they would agree to a
tougher standard than what our current law is for this event facility in consideration of the neighbors.
Mayor Lockwood
I would like to ask the applicant if that; again before something gets approved or whatever and I want to
make sure the applicant is obviously aware of it but is comfortable, we can make any decision we want
to but we want to make clear that the applicant is saying yes or no; we are in agreement with that so we
at least know ...
Rich Kaye
Like I said, we would love to have 65 but we think as a compromise we would do the 45. I would just
like you to reconsider the Sunday and maybe the Sunday during the summer versus Sunday during the
academic year that we might be able to have weddings later to accommodate the Jewish faith.
Mayor Lockwood
Can I make a suggestion? And, I see everybody's point but, I'll just say it and it may be harder to
enforce, not harder to enforce but it will take some extra steps if we do the tier but is there maybe a
compromise where you go from 65 to 55? That turns it down a little, and again, I hate to tell somebody
what hours to operate their business and this and that and if it is correct on Sunday's for a Jewish
wedding would be on Sunday'S but also understand school night so maybe have the hours just like
Friday, Saturday, and Sunday during the summer and then during the winter, during school, put it back
down to 11 :00 pm.
Rich Kaye
That would be fine with us.
Mayor Lockwood
I don't know if that is a compromise?
Rich Kaye
That compromise would be agreeable to us.
Mayor Lockwood
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 38 of68
I am not saying we have to do that but that is; the applicant is agreeing to that so if council wants to or if
you want to stick with your motion ...
Councilmember Hewitt
I want to comment on the first part, I mean, if we change it from 65 to whatever; there is still a
difference and if the applicant is agreeable to 45 let's stick with 45. To me, there is no difference
between 45 and 55 regarding enforcement. And, Robyn, can you tell me perhaps, what is the original
intent of the hours that were asked?
Robyn MacDonald
The original intent was that we looked at the other use pennit that you all approved.
Council member Hewitt
But, did they ask in their application?
Robyn MacDonald
No, they had asked for longer hours than what was the other use pennit.
Councilmember Hewitt
What were the hours that they asked for?
Rich Kaye
Originally, what we asked for was 9:00 a.m. to midnight with music until 11 :00 p.m. Following 11 :00
p.m. tennination of music, everyone would vacate by 12:00 p.m. Days of operation would be seven
days a week.
Councilmember Hewitt
So, you asked for 9:00 a.m. to midnight seven days a week?
Rich Kaye
Yes. But, Monday through Thursday, 10:00 p.m. cut off of the music during the academic year with the
facility shut down by 11 :00 p.m. during the academic year.
Councilmember Kunz
So, you said Sundays not during the academic year?
Rich Kaye
No, we are asking for Sundays. We were saying Monday through Thursday.
City Manager Lagerbloom
Can we ask the person who made the second to make a motion to withdraw?
Councilmember Mohrig
I make a motion to withdraw.
City Manager Lagerbloom
There are a couple of things we have to clear up.
------------------------------------------------~--~---.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 39 of68
Councilmember Kunz
I withdraw my motion.
City Manager Lagerbloom
There are a couple of things I want to draw your attention to. Just to make sure that by the time we get
the next motion that I have at least pointed them out. There are some recommendations that came out of
the Planning Commission as well. I just want to point you to those. They are on page two of your
packet. The Planning Commission seeks to modify section l(c) by adding a 3, 4, and 5. We are largely
right now stuck in figuring out what the right answer is to 1 (c) 1 and 2. But, I just want to draw your
attention to the fact that there are some recommendations that came out of the Planning Commission that
deal with portable toilet facilities as well as deliveries, etc. I didn't want you to overlook them by just
accepting staffs recommendations. That is nwnber one. Number two is that if the noise ordinance that
exists today speaks to 65 and 60 based upon times of the day, it is a whole lot easier from our
perspective that rather than you specify that it be at 65 at a certain time; simply let us know at what point
in the night you want it to drop to 45 and what day of the week. I don't know that we need to be worried
about the 65 since it is already part of the code. We just need to start to know when you deviate from
the code. So, if you could identify for us a couple of, it sounds like I am starting to capture what you
are going to make as a motion, but if you could identify the day of the week and when you want the
decibels to drop to 45, that would be a great first step, as well as when you want the facility to close.
That would be a great second step. If that deviates between different times of the year based upon the
academic school year, I will tell you that we can do that, although, every additional detail we add to it
we could potentially make it so cumbersome it is difficult to enforce because we are not sure what we
are enforcing. We will do our best. I just want to point that out and just highlight the Planning
Commission recommendations. If you like them great, although I am not suggesting that you make
them a part of whatever motion is presented but I just wanted to point them out.
Councilmember Kunz
Okay, so I think I've got it. So, I make a motion to approve consideration of U 14-02 for 14505
Batesville Road, by LRF Milton, LLC -To Operate a Rural Event Facility (Sec. 64-1842) with Planning
Commission recommendations items number (c) 3, 4, and 5 which would be the amplified sound and
music shall be located within the enclosed portion of the atrium; all delivery shall enter off of Batesville
Road; and when portable toilets are used they shall not be viewed from Batesville Road or Taylor Road.
Staff Recommendations with the change that during the academic school year from Friday through
Saturday, music starting at 10:00 p.m. would be at 45 decibels; close at 12:00 p.m.
Mayor Lockwood
I don't think that was your intent.
Councilmember Kunz
Wait a minute; I'm sorry. During the academic school year, I'm sorry, hold on a second, during the
Friday through Saturday music at 45 decibels until 11 :00 p.m. close at 12:00 p.m.
Mayor Lockwood
You need to add starting at 10:00 p.m. though.
Councilmember Kunz
Starting at 10:00 p.m., okay, music at 10:00 p.m. from 10:00 to 11:00.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 40 of68
Councilmember Mohrig
Decreasing to ...
Councilmember Kunz
Decreases to 45 decibels.
Council member Mohrig
Ceases at 11 :00 p.m.
Councilmember Kunz
Ceases at 12:00 p.m.
Councilmember Mohrig
No, ceases at 11 :00 p.m.
Councilmember Kunz
No, during the school year.
Councilmember Mohrig
Ceases at 11 :00 p.m. and the event facility closes at 12 :00 p.m.
Councilmember Kunz
Event facility closes at 12:00 p.m., that's, okay. Music ceases, okay, from 10:00 p.m. to 11 :00 p.m. is
45 decibels, stops at 11 :00 p.m., closes at 12:00 p.m. and then during the summer from Friday ...
Mayor Lockwood
Let me break in. I think what, tell me if I am wrong, but what you are looking for is a time that is
probably the same on the weekends as it is during the summer, but then during the school year, during
the week ...
Council member Kunz
Yeah.
Mayor Lockwood
You are going to ratchet them down.
Councilmember Kunz
I am sorry I just can't make a motion to give you Sunday, I'm sorry. That's where I'm stopping right
here. I'm just going from Friday -Saturday, close during the summer would be also 10 -11 decibel 45,
close at 12:00. During the school year, Sunday -Thursday from 9:00am -10:00pm at 45 decibel, close
at 11 :00 pm. and then during the summer also from Sunday -Thursday from 9:00am -11 :OOpm, 45
decibel, close at 12:00 am.
Mayor Lockwood
I am not following that. ... either.
Councilmember Kunz
OK.
r
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 41 of68
City Manager Lagerbloom
Why don't we see if you can get a second for us, so we can discuss or withdraw.
Mayor Lockwood
Yes. I want to discuss it. Do we have a second?
Councilmember Lusk
I will second it so we can withdraw it.
Mayor Lockwood
All in favor please say "Aye". Only one voted for it so that motion failed.
I think you can help us Chris.
City Manager Lagerbloom
I am hearing there is potentially still some debate on the council whether we should put these 2 time
frames in buckets. I am seeing that there is probability that the council wants to approve something
with a Monday -Thursday or a Sunday -Thursday either or and then either a Friday -Saturday or a
Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I think that is one we would probably want to figure out where the council is
leaning at this point as to whether or not Sunday gets lumped into with Friday and Saturday or not.
Mayor Lockwood
Let me ask this. How about we start out with what the applicant is asking for to make sure we are all
clear on that and then if we want to make a change to that. The applicant is asking now for Friday,
Saturday and Sunday to be treated equally as music stops at 11 :OOpm and the facility to close at
I2:00am. Am I correct? On Friday, Saturday, Sunday?
Rich Kaye
Correct.
Mayor Lockwood
And that is throughout the year? That during the week, the applicant is asking for Monday -Thursday
stop music at IO:OOpm and close at 11 :OOp.m. During the week not Friday, Saturday or Sunday but then
during the school year, what would the change be for there?
Councilmember Kunz
During school year actually it closes at 11 :OOpm.
Mayor Lockwood
I think we already had it at 11 :OOpm.
Councilmember Kunz
During the summer it closes at I2:00am.
Mayor Lockwood
During the summer every night would close at 12:00am is what the applicant was asking ... the music
would stop at 11 :00 am. So basically the summer is the same as the weekends but during the school
year ratchet back an hour earlier. I can see ratcheting the decibel level down if the applicant is willing to
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 42 of68
do that or they say they are willing to do that. Legally I don't know, Ken ...the Sunday thing if there is
in fact a Jewish wedding things like that, are we being discriminatory if we are shutting it down a day
early ... it may not be ... it may be a tough question to ask.
City Attorney Jarrard
Well, the applicant has raised that. I think you are making a nondiscriminatory generic land use
regulation is what you are making this evening. I wouldn't want to venture down the path of whether
we are trying to be prohibitive to a certain religious use of the property or not but I continue to believe
that you have the right to do this candidly I am just not sure right now I am getting your vision, the City
Manager and I are trying to get your vision as what you want this to look like. Please just try to make
your policy the way you need to, don't be concerned right now about that issue.
Councilmember Kunz
I am just concerned that when people have to go to work on Monday morning. It is not a religious thing.
Mayor Lockwood
I get it.
City Manager Lagerbloom
Alright I might have captured it a different way that might be working towards what I am gathering from
you. It is a lot easier standard for us if we tie these differences of time to something that is not as
ambiguous or that changes year to year as the Fulton County School Calendar. It would be much easier
for us if we were to change these to being the months of. For example, June, July and August would be
treated potentially differently than January -May and September -December. That gives a very crystal
clear start and stop period that will largely tract with the Fulton County School Calendar. What I have
captured, I am going to start with where the Mayor was by in saying what the applicant was asking for
then see where the council lands. But for January -December, so the full calendar year, that on Friday,
Saturday and Sunday music would end at 11 :OOpm and the facility would close at midnight. In
addition, Monday -Thursday would be between June and August (summer time) that music would end
at 11 :OOpm and the facility would close at midnight. In January -May and September -December of
each calendar year Monday -Thursday, music would stop at lO:OOpm and facility would close at
11 :OOpm. I think this is ... I don't know if that is right.
Mayor Lockwood
Right, that is what they were asking.
City Manager Lagerbloom
It's a place to start from. That would be modification if anyone were to make a motion that would
modify section l(c) 1 and 2. We've heard potentially that there is some interest in including the
Planning Commission recommendations section l(c) 3, 4 and 5.
Councilmember Kunz
Chris, would you read that? What you just said again. Your thoughts?
City Manager Lagerbloom
All of it?
Mayor Lockwood
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 43 of68
What do you want him to read?
Councilmember Kunz
I just want to write it down and see it in front of me.
City Manager Lagerbloom
Something along the lines of if somebody is working towards getting to a motion would be to approve
this with Staffs recommended conditions as well as Planning Commission recommended conditions but
for the modification to 1 (c) 1 and 2 to include the language that would suggest the facility could operate
for the entirety of the calendar year, Friday -Sunday where music would end at 11 :OOpm and the
facility would close at midnight. Additionally, that in the months of June, July and August that the
facility would operate Monday -Thursday, music until 11 :00 and closing at midnight and in the months
of January -May and September -December on Monday -Thursday the music would end at 10:00pm
and the facility would close at 11 :OOpm.
Councilmember Kunz
No lowering of decibels?
Mayor Lockwood
Well that's just the hours.
Councilmember Rick Mohrig
That was just the proposed hours of operations.
City Manager Lagerbloom
And you could make it clean if you wanted to by adding one hour before the music is to cease it would
drop to 45 decibels or something like that.
Councilmember Kunz
Right. OK.
Councilmember Lusk
You didn't mention alcohol service.
City Manager Lagerbloom
No, I didn't touch alcohol service.
Mayor Lockwood
Well wouldn't that be pretty standard an hour before .
City Manager Lagerbloom
Yes, there would be certain times that go along with the final call and the stopping of selling of alcohol.
Councilmember Kunz
That's 15 minutes before the music stops, right?
Mayor Lockwood
Anybody else have anything else they want.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 44 of68
Councilmember Hewitt
I still ... the weekly times I don't like the close and I think like what Matt was saying Friday and
Saturday vs. Sunday -Thursday.
Councilmember Mohrig
I think it's going to lean more that way because I think more standard, if you just look at business
operating regardless of what the venue is. Sunday is usually closed down a little bit earlier because
people are getting prepared for Monday for work.
Councilmember Hewitt
My suggested times for whatever it is worth would be Sunday -Thursday, June, July, August knowing
that school though does start in the middle of August... to not confuse it anymore let's call it summer
months 10:00 -11 :00 closing and school year 9:00 and a 10:00 closing.
Councilmember Lusk
Summer ends September 21 st.
Councilmember Mohrig
Let's go back to calendar June, July and August.
Mayor Lockwood
Yes, let's stick with that. Well you are going back 2 hours. You are cutting it back 2 hours from what
the request is, is that what I am hearing?
Councilmember Hewitt
No just one. Music at 10:00 during the summer and the place closes at 11 :00. School year music at
9:00 place closes at 10:00.
Mayor Lockwood
Chris, you have what was proposed, right?
City Manager Lagerbloom
I was just giving us a starting point.
Mayor Lockwood
No, no I am saying what Burt saying ... 2 hours difference or 1 hour difference?
City Manager Lagerbloom
No, I would capture that if he were to suggest what I think it is, serve Monday -Thursday during the
school year, music at 9:00, close at 10:00, that would be a 1 hour reduction.
Councilmember Hewitt
Because you (City Manager) said 10:00 and 11 :00.
Mayor Lockwood
I see what you are saying Burt.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 45 of 68
Councilmember Mohrig
So you are saying Sunday -Thursday, Burt?
Councilmember Hewitt
Yes.
Councilmember Kunz
June, July and August. .. Sunday -Thursday ... music ends at 10:00. Facility completely shuts down at
11 :OOpm.
Councilmember Mohrig
The other nine months which would be the school year would be 9:00 music 10:00 closing.
Councilmember Kunz
Yes . Then Friday and Saturday music stops at 11 :00 and closing at midnight.
Councilmember Mohrig
Yes.
City Manager Lagerbloom
The one thing I did not capture ... what did you say Sunday -Thursday June, July and August?
Councilmember Hewitt
Sunday -Thursday June, July and August music ends at 10:00 facility closes at 11 :00.
Councilmember Longoria
For Monday -Thursday?
Councilmember Hewitt
Sunday -Thursday.
Councilmember Longoria
Oh, Sunday -Thursday.
Mayor Lockwood
Chris, are you doing what you are hearing the council propose?
Councilmember Longoria
If you had your thing flipped up you would see what he was doing.
Mayor Lockwood
I almost want to have 2 different pairs so we know.
Chris, what you are saying here is what you believe you are hearing the council say or some members of
the council say?
City Manager Lagerbloom
That is correct. That is what I probably just heard what Burt say.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 46 of68
Mayor Lockwood
OK.
City Manager Lagerbloom
And now maybe this is written down, we can slide the scale up and down depending on where the
majority of the council wants to go.
City Manager Lagerbloom
I like that.
Councilmember Kunz
The only things you need to add obviously the condition of the music decibel would be at 45 for the
hour prior to music ceasing.
Councilmember Longoria
Can we debate that some?
Councilmember Kunz
Sure. Go ahead.
Councilmember Longoria
I am just concerned that our city ordinances aren't appropriate. What you are saying by the fact that we
are having to reduce the music level, is it that our city ordinances don ' t work? And I got some concerns
with that, in addition , to the fact that somebody is going to have to figure out what time they have to
change what reading. Is it too noisy when we are following our own ordinances is the question?
Because if it is too noisy, then yes, let's change it. If it's not too noisy then why are we trying to make it
less noisy?
Councilmember Mohrig
I think it depends on the time of the day.
Councilmember Longoria
Well, no hold it. Our ordinance covers everything.
Councilmember Kunz
I will say that if the applicant was asking for it, why not.
Mayor Lockwood
I think the point is the applicant may have said they would do it but are we adding more burden , to Joe 's
point, if our ordinance isn't right do we need to change our whole ordinance.
City Manager Lagerbloom
May I respond to that? It's a great question and a good point. When we defined those decibel levels
there was more that went into figuring out what that decibel related to them than simply music. We had
to be very careful because of the proximity of houses in Milton to other houses, particularly in
neighborhoods that are closely next to each other, that we could make every air conditioner unit in
Milton illegal over night by dropping the decibel level down to what noise that would transmit at the
property line. So it was designed to be for more than just simply music. That's why there was that
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22 , 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 47 of68
second part in there that went into the more perceived enforcement than the real enforcement. To the
extent that this applicant has suggested that they would be willing to condition themselves to a stronger
standard than what Milton actually has in its code, I don't know if there is necessarily anything wrong
with that or would try to talk you out of accepting that, but I would say the numbers of 60 and 65 were
determined because we figured out those numbers for more than just music, i.e. leaf blowers, air
conditioners, you would be amazed at what actually makes 65 decibels worth of noise.
Councilmember Longoria
Well we had some practical experience with it based on the situation not too far from here and I thought
it stood up very well in terms of being appropriate.
City Manager Lagerbloom
It's a good fair code.
Council member Mohrig
In living through that and sitting in people's homes and hearing what that decibel amount at night still
sounded like, and I was in someone's home , it's still, depending on proximity, even though that is the
standard, it's still to me was obtrusive if! were to live in that home .
Councilmember Longoria
And, that's why decibel levels can cover the whole thing that it's got to be this perceived notion as well
and that is what our ordinance covers.
Councilmember Kunz
I guess my thought is if the ordinance was right and maybe it is maybe it isn't, but we can't fix the
ordinance tonight. My question is , if it was right, why then do parents have to explain a gruesome song
to their 5 year olds going to bed at night. That's a valid concern for the Val mont residents.
Mayor Lockwood
The decibels may have been too much ... sounded like they were a whole lot more that night.
Councilmember Longoria
We don't know about that. We can't debate what we don't understand.
Council member Hewitt
The reason I support the decibels going down is twofold: 1) Because the applicant has said they would
be willing to do that and 2) I think it gives the concerned residents across the way, that have sound
issue , a 33% reduction in what it could be. So that's why I am in support of the 45 decibels one hour
before . I don't know if it's something, I think perhaps there are bigger issues that we should be
spending our time discussing than that at this point.
Mayor Lockwood
I want to give the applicant the opportunity again with what is proposed right here ... but I want them to
at least address that because we are not only faced that they give the 45 but we are also ratcheting down
the hours too. They may not want to do that. So if you agree with us or not just so we know.
Rich Kaye
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 48 of68
We offered up the 45 because of the time to appease it, but I will tell you this will not be a viable option
for us period. If we have to turn the music off at 9:00 and close by 10:00 it will not be a viable option
for us. Again, we are happy to ratcheted down to 45 for the last hour but if you close us down that early
that would throw Sunday out period, that would be a day that we would not be able to book anything,
and so during the week the same. So if that is the option, again we were happy to ratcheted down and
volunteered that and offered that as a compromise but if you take 2 hours off the table for us Sunday
Thursday then that just makes it ...those days would not be possible to rent.
Mayor Lockwood
Let me ask you a question. If the hours were more in keeping with what you had proposed but then you
ratcheted the music down would that work?
Rich Kaye
Absolutely, I think if we changed it from 10:00 -11 :00 then we would be happy with that and we would
ratchet it down to 45 but we cannot live with 9:00 and 10:00 and make this a viable option. Nobody will
rent this facility ... nobody will.
Mayor Lockwood
From 9:00-10:00 we are concerned with the noise.
Rich Kaye
And we are happy to ratchet down to 45. Again, I understand your concern if the law of 65 decibels is
not correct then why do we have it, we are happy to exceed that and even though the code would permits
us.
Councilman Longoria
You don't mean exceed from a decimal point?
Rich Kaye
No, no but I mean we will do better than that. Even though we know the code will permit us in a normal
circumstances to go to 65 we will take it upon ourselves to have a more stringent noise reduction for that
accommodation. And we realize that for us, that is the only way we are going to make this a viable
option, because if you are going to rent a place at 6:00 by the time you get up here it's not going to be
until 7:30 any way, and then the thing is over in an hour and a half. It's just not going to work during
the week. It's just not going to work for us.
Mayor Lockwood
OK, let's see what Chris comes up with.
City Manager Lagerbloom
This is different to look at. I am not saying this is right or not but this is what was just described.
In that circumstance there really is no difference because you don't have to specify school year vs. non
school year. So that's the difference there ... it takes away the nuance of what those 3 summer months
mean. So that is what you just heard. I can flip back to the other one. I just copied and pasted so I did
not make the other one go away.
Councilmember Mohrig
So the music goes down Sunday-Thursday at 9:00 ... it goes down to the lower level.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6 :00 pm
Page 49 of68
Mayor Lockwood
No ... 10:00pm.
Councilmember Kunz
45 Decibels at 9:00pm.
Mayor Lockwood
We are starting with what the applicant asked for or what ... yes, I think that is what they are asking for
and we are throwing in there is lowering to 45 one hour before close.
Councilmember Mohrig
Which they agreed to ...
Mayor Lockwood
Correct me ... from the applicant's side ... this is what you would like to see?
Rich Kaye
Correct.
Mayor Lockwood
So you know.
Person in audience
Mayor, can we ask a question?
Mayor Lockwood
You know what, hold up one second. It is not in protocol but Ken what do we do ... fill out a conunent
card or what are your thoughts?
City Attorney Jarrard
Well at this point, we are in council discussion and this is really not an appropriate time except to
address questions that you raise to whoever in the audience you have a question for , which you have
been asking some from the applicant and that's perfectly legitimate.
Mayor Lockwood
OK. Hopefully we can do that after the hearing is closed. Again, this is what the applicant would like
and then add in the 45 decibels but you guys are open to making a motion. Maybe Staff can answer
your question. You could always ask us a question, Chris.
City Manager Lagerbloom
It was more a statement than a question. It was some concern over who is actually going to be the
enforcement mechanism at 10:00 and 11 :00 at night and to a large degree he was correct in saying that it
originates with a call to 911 is what starts the enforcement process.
Councilmember Longoria
Oh, I thought we were going to have police at every event that is what the applicant said.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 50 of68
City Manager Lagerbloom
Off-hours.
Councilmember Longoria
Off-hour police are required to enforce the law.
City Manager Lagerbloom
If that is at every event then they can handle it.
Councilmember Longoria
Yes, I didn't think that was an issue.
Mayor Lockwood
Well what I think would happen is the officers that are there would try to enforce it but if they didn 't a
call would come in.
City Manager Lagerbloom
That's right.
Councilmember Lusk
They would be there to respond to any calls that came in.
Mayor Lockwood
They would get radioed in there. Yes. Where are we at now ... so what is on the board right there is
hours the applicant says they can live with as well as dropping the music down an hour before.
Councilmember Lusk
Pretty simple.
Mayor Lockwood
Question is ... do we want to make a motion different?
Councilmember Longoria
Refresh my memory ... we don't have a motion right now ... we are debating we are waiting for another
motion?
Mayor Lockwood
Yes, waiting for another motion.
Councilmember Longoria
Matt has gone 3 strikes and he is out.
Councilmember Kunz
I have gone 2.
Mayor Lockwood
Raise your hand first. Joe, did you make a motion?
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 51 of68
Councilmember Longoria
If Chris will flip back to what was just up. My motion would include the Staffs conditions but not the
Planning Commission conditions for simplification , because it was the subset that was most appropriate .
I would include the 45 decibel one hour prior to music ending ; I would include the Friday and Saturday
night music ending at 11 :00 . Actually the rest of that is correct as is .
Councilmember Hewitt
You are opposed to these 3.
Councilmember Longoria
Yes because we are already saying that they have to be at 45 decibels an hour prior to closing and we
have the sound ordinance that's enforced other than that.
Councilmember Hewitt
But Batesville, delivery's, portable ...
Councilmember Longoria
Those weren 't part of the Staffs?
Councilmember Hewitt, Mayor Lockwood
No.
Council member Hewitt
No, this is what Planning Commission added.
Councilmember Longoria
Ok. Chris can you add .. .1 approve that we approve this Special Use Permit with the Staffs
recommendations and the following recommendations : 1) The Planning Commission Conditions l(c)
3 ,4 and 5 which has to do with location, music, deliveries, and portable toilet situations that the decibel
(noise) reduction will occur 1 hour prior to the music ending time. 2) That on Friday and Saturday the
music will end at 11 :OOpm and the facility will close at midnight. 3) On Sunday -Thursday the music
ends at 1 0:00pm and the facility closes at 11 :OOpm.
Councilmember Lusk
I second the motion.
Mayor Lockwood
OK. We got a motion and Joe just to clarify is this on the board, your motion?
Councilmember Longoria
Correct.
Mayor Lockwood
OK, we got a motion and a second (Councilmember Lusk). Now we will open up for discussion or
questions anybody has with this motion.
Councilmember Kunz
I would like to see alcohol as well end 15 minutes prior to the music ending.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22 , 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 52 of68
Councilmember Longoria
Can I ask a question of our city attorney?
City Attorney Jarrard
Go ahead.
Councilmember Longoria
This Special Use Permit doesn't cover an alcohol license and it doesn't restrict the use of alcohol or
pennit the use of alcohol, those things fall under something entirely different, correct?
City Attorney Jarrard
That's correct. It is a separate code and will be a separate approval when they come in for their pennit.
Mayor Lockwood
So that is something that will come before us later on.
Councilmember Kunz
Okay. Never mind .
Mayor Lockwood
Alright is there any other discussion on this motion that is ....
Councilmember Hewitt
I don't necessarily have any discussion but I understand the applicant's position of the week day hours
that they don't think the earlier times are permissible but I won't support this because of the weekday
hours.
Mayor Lockwood
OK, so you are saying because of the 11 :00 close. Alright, anybody else?
City Attorney Jarrard
Mr. Mayor, just advise, Robin just infonned me and I want to make sure you are aware as well, is that
probably the expectation will be is that this entity will not secure their own alcohol license but will in
fact use a 3rd party vendors to cater events. So I just didn't want the council to walk away thinking that
this entity would be back in front of you for an alcohol permit.. .
Council member Mohrig
So we should put the restriction on alcohol to stop serving 15 minutes before music ends.
Mayor Lockwood
I think the applicant had mentioned they agreed to that.
City Attorney Jarrard
Right.
Councilmember Mohrig
What you are saying is we want to add that?
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 53 of68
City Attorney Jarrard
You want them to add it.
Mayor Lockwood
We just have to resend the second and then the first and do it again.
Councilmember Lusk
What's the Friendly Amendment?
Mayor Lockwood
I don't know if there really is a Friendly Amendment.
What's the proper ... do we resend this and restate it again?
City Attorney
A Friendly Amendment given this procedure posh we got everything in front of us ...yes, I think that
would be appropriate.
Mayor Lockwood
Okay, would you add on alcohol -last call 15 minutes before music stops.
Councilmember Lusk
One other thing we have not brought up is starting times. I think hours of operations start at 9:00am.
City Attorney Jarrard
Does the second maker of the second, do they agree with the alcohol cease and service of 15 minutes?
Councilmember Lusk
I agree.
City Attorney Jarrard
Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood
Now to clarify since we are putting in a closing time we are going to put in a starting time?
Councilmember Lusk
Or is that in the Planning or Staff. ..
City Attorney Jarrard
That's in the Staffs conditions.
Councilmember Mohrig
But we are amending those hours, right? Right here from what's in there for Staff.
Add the 9:00 am.
Mayor Lockwood
If it is alright with the second and the motion you want to add the 9:00 start?
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 54 of68
Councilmember Longoria
We are doing a great job right now.
Mayor Lockwood
Alright, Ken, procedurally, do we need to have him have a Friendly Amendment?
City Attorney Jarrard
I would like that. Go ahead and declare for the record since there been some ...
Councilmember
I move that we approve this Special Use Permit U14-02 with Staff Conditions as recommended plus the
PlaIU1ing Commissions conditions l(c) 3, 4, and 5 with a maximum reading one hour prior to music
ending of 45 decibels, alcohol service ceasing 15 minutes prior to music end and the schedule for hours
of operation are Friday and Saturday, opens no earlier than 9:00am, music ends no later than 11 :OOpm
and Facility closes at midnight. Hours for operations for S unday-Thursday, opens no earlier than
9:00am, music ends no later than 1 0:00pm and facility closes at 11 :OOpm.
Councilmember Lusk
I second the motion.
Mayor Lockwood
The motion as read into the record as also on the screen from Councilmember Longoria and I have a
second from Councilmember Lusk. Now discussion, I just have a question for applicant. Is applicant
clear on what this motion is and also to clarify, I believe this is obviously different than what you were
asking for. During the week it is closing an hour earlier than you had requested or would like?
Rich Kaye
It definitely is but I think we can live with it.
Mayor Lockwood
Any other discussion? The motion passed (5-1). Five in Favor and Councilmember Hewitt "Against"
with Councilmember Thurman "Abstained". Alright. Thank You. Okay, we will have a five minute
break.
Mayor Lockwood
Let's resume from our five minute break. Let's prioritize. Council do we want to move the budget
discussion or do we want to tackle some other issues and then come back to it?
City Manager Lagerbloom
I think Mr. Mayor, what I would like to at least recommend we do tonight is because we are in a
Published Zoning Agenda and that has its own set of advertising requirements along with it. I think it is
also important that we have had somebody to sign up to speak in public comment in all 6 of the items
tonight. So we probably should go ahead and stay in the Zoning Agenda and then I might recommend
that we handle the 2 items to finish off New Business and then go to executive session. If at the end of
Executive Session, if we happen to have any time to talk about the budget, we will do that otherwise, I
hate to infringe upon your next Monday night but we will need to call a meeting to defer those items
because our ordinance does not allow us to go past midnight unless we are in one of those emergency
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 55 of68
modes. So I don't know that we can physically get this agenda done by midnight tonight and those
would seem to be the package that would push the easiest together, if that's acceptable to the Council.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Longoria made a motion to approve U 14-02 with staff conditions as
recommended including the Planning Commission conditions 1 c) iii., iv. and v. with a maximum dBA
reading one hour prior to music ending of 45 dBA. Alcohol service ceasing 15 minutes prior to music
end. The schedule for hours of operation Friday and Saturday, opens no earlier than 9:00 a.m., music
ends no later than 11 :00 p.m. Facility closes at midnight. Hours of operation for Sunday through
Thursday, opens no earlier than 9:00 a.m., music ends no later than 10 :00 p.m. Facility closes at 11 :00
p.m. Councilmember Lusk seconded the motion. The motion passed (5-1). Councilmember Hewitt
was in opposition. Councilmember Thurman recused herself from the vote.
1) To the owner's agreement to restrict the use of the subject property as follows:
a) A rural event facility.
b) The number of attendees shall not exceed 250 people for any single event.
c) The hours of operation shall be the following:
1. Friday through Saturday, 9:00 a.m. to 11 :00 p.m ., music ends no later than 11 :00
pm, Maximum 45 dBA one hour prior to music ending. Alcohol ceases service
15 minutes before music ending. Facility closes at midnight.
11. Sunday through Thursday: 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m., music ends no later than 10:00
pm, Maximum 45 dBA one hour prior to music ending. Alcohol ceases service
15 minutes before music ending. Facility closes at 11 :00 pm.
Ill. Amplified sound of music shall be located within the enclosed portion of the
atrium.
IV. All deliveries shall enter off of Batesville Road.
v. When portable toilets are used, they shall not be viewed from
Batesville Road and Taylor Road.
2) To the owner's agreement to abide by the following:
a) To the revised site plan received by the Community Development Department on August 19,
2014. Said site plan is conceptual only and must meet or exceed the requirements of the
Zoning Ordinance, all other applicable City ordinances and these conditions prior to the
approval of a Land Disturbance Permit. In the event the Recommended Conditions of
Zoning cause the approved site plan to be substantially different, the applicant shall be
required to complete the concept review procedure prior to application for a Land
Disturbance Permit. Unless otherwise noted herein, compliance with all conditions shall
be in place prior to the issuance of the first Certificate of Occupancy.
3) To the owner's agreement to the following site development considerations:
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 56 of68
a) A 10,536 square foot structure, a 4,296 square foot atrium, and all other buildings shall
not be expanded in size as depicted on the revised site plan received by the Community
Development Department on August 19,2014.
b) The location and number of parking spaces shall be as depicted on the revised site plan
received on August 19,2014. All events with more than 75 attendees shall be required to
have valet service and provide a minimum of one off-duty police officer for such events.
4) To the owner's agreement to abide by the following requirements, dedication and improvements:
a) Access to the site shall be subject to the approval of City of Milton Public Works
Department, prior to the issuance of a Business License, Land Disturbance Permit, Subdivision
Plat or Certificate of Occupancy (whichever comes first). Entrance( s) shall conform to Chapter
48 Streets, Sidewalks and Other Public Places of the City of Milton Code of Ordinances, or be
reconstructed to meet such criteria as required by the Department of Public Works. At a
minimum the following shall apply:
1. Driveway(s) shall meet required intersection sight distance and shall be certified by
professional engineer
11. Driveway(s) shall be improved within the right of way.
2. Consideration ofRZ14-05 -To Amend Article VI, Division 23 -CUP (Community Unit
Plan) District.
(Agenda Item No. 14 -189)
(First Presentation at July 7, 2014 Regular City Council Meeting)
(Discussed at July 14, 2014 City Council Work Session)
(Deferred at July 21, 2014 Regular Meeting to September 22, 2014 Regular City Council Meeting)
(Kathleen Field, Community Development Director)
Community Development Director Field
Yes, thank you. Mr. Mayor the Community Development Department recommends that we defer
discussion on this item until the October 20,2014 Mayor and City Council meeting. The intent is also
to have a discussion at the October work session as well on some of these zoning ordinances. So, that is
our recommendation for tonight.
Walter Rekuc, 615 Scarlet Oak Trail, Milton, Georgia 30004
Again, I know you bring up the CUP. I had no idea it was going to be deferred. That is not what it says
on your agenda. And, again, I just get very frustrated. I keep on hoping that you will come up with
something that hopefully there will be something here that is different than what I see each time and it is
not. Everything is staying exactly the same and it is just very frustrating for me to hear, okay, we are
going to defer it again, defer it again, yet, I try to have people come in and meet with staff to talk about
these different issues and I don't see anything happening. And, of course, the moratorium goes on and
on but we don't come to a resolution. So, it is just very frustrating to me to keep on coming here and I
would sure like to get some decision made on this. And, basically, some of your best communities in
the city are CUP; Crooked Creek, White Columns, Triple Crown, Kingsley Estates, and yet we are going
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 57 of68
to throw out the ordinance and come in with a new ordinance. Why are we doing that? I keep asking
the question and it doesn't get answered. Thank you.
Councilmember Longoria
So, Robyn, can you answer our citizen's question? What is going to be changed between now and then?
Or, Kathy, what is going to change between now and then that we are going to be able to vote on next
time?
Kathleen Field
Well, we would like to have a full discussion on the CUP and the NUP and especially the R2 which we
are going to propose to be modified to what we will call an RR. And, the idea is to take some of those
setbacks that were previously allowed in the NUP and the CUP and make them a little more stringent in
the new RR that we are going to create. So, it requires some discussion about it and we didn't feel that
we had had the opportunity for that discussion so the intent is at the October 15,2014 workshop meeting
to talk all about these different ordinances so we can have a full discussion. We, also at that time
wanted to talk about some issues about the covenants in the Manor and how they relate to the northwest
overlay zones; the height, the percentage of coverage; there are a lot of zoning issues that we felt that it
would be better if we put them all together into one major discussion and have that the next time which
is October 15 th and then you could take action on it if you so desired on October 20th .
Councilmember Longoria
So, what is your confidence level if we have those discussions that we can actually vote on this at the
second meeting in October? I am trying to help our citizen to understand when we are really going to
vote on this.
Kathleen Field
I am very very hopeful that, because we also would like to see this move forward, as a matter of fact,
one of these we are going to recommend that we do move forward on tonight which is the TR which is
coming up soon, so we are trying.
Councilmember Thurman
Is part of the discussion going to be, why are we even doing this?
Kathleen Field
Yes, sure, we can discuss that.
Councilmember Thurman
Because I am not clear why, like I said, I really like the CUPs and the NUPs because it gave you
flexibility and it didn't make everything fit in certain little boxes.
Kathleen Field
But, if you remember we had the issue, the discussion that came from some members of the community
that we were giving more density than what the true yield would be of the parcel size so I think that is a
very fair question and we certainly need to discuss that as well.
Councilmember Thurman
I just need to understand why we are changing it if we are going to be looking at changing it.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Counc il
Monday, September 22 ,2014 at 6 :00 pm
Page 58 of68
City Manager Lagerbloom
Council, the other thing that I want to continue on that thought is that we have had this discussion before
that it was appropriate to bring these items forward when we can bring them forward with the discussion
of the overlay itself because when we brought these forward before , there was a conflict between the
overlay that had just been adopted by the council and these new zoning designations dealing with, as
you recall, building height as well as total lot area of coverage so , it is appropriate , we believe, that they
all be discussed at the same time because they are all intertwined. Now, as you know with a zoning
item, when it is deferred to a date specific meeting we have to publish it on the meeting agenda whether
we want to or not. The place I would highlight and ask the public to go if they want to see exactly what
is being contemplated or what is being proposed at the meeting that they might come to , is to go into the
packet that publishes for each agenda and on each agenda item you will see there is an agenda item
coversheet and on each of those coversheet it suggests what we want for that item during the meeting
and these are clearly marked that we were and do plan on recommending deferral at the meeting. It is
just required that it be on that packet as opposed to the agenda itself because there are certain legal
requirements that go along with the advertisement of an agenda. I'm not trying to make excuses I just
want you to understand where it was listed and where it wasn't.
Council member Hewitt
Isn 't it also published in the monthly zoning meeting, I don't want to call it an agenda, but it is those
e mails that you look out a few weeks.
City Manager Lagerbloom
I don 't know. I don't know the answer to that. If Robyn can forecast it , she tries to . Just another spot to
look to see what is going to happen.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Thurman moved to defer Agenda Item No. 14-189 to the October
20,2014 Regularly Scheduled City Council Meeting. Councilmember Kunz seconded the motion. The
motion passed unanimously (7-0).
3. Consideration of RZ14-06 -To Amend Article VI, Division 24 -NUP (Neighborhood Unit
Plan) District.
(Agenda Item N o. 14-190)
(First Pr esentation at July 7, 2014 Regular City Co uncil Meeting)
(Dis cussed at July 14, 2014 City Co un cil Work Sess ion)
(Deferred at July 2 1, 2 014 Regular Meeting to Sept ember 22,2014 Regular C ity Co un cil Mee tin g)
(Kathlee n Field, Co mmunity Deve lopm ent Direct or)
Kathleen Field, Community Development Director
Mr. Mayor, the Community Development Department recommends deferral of this item as well to the
October 20,2014 Mayor and City Council Meeting.
Walter Rekuc, 615 Scarlet Oak Trail, Milton, Georgia 30004
Same comment as the CUP. I am just trying to get this thing done and even though the city attorney
recommends deferral, excuse me , you have the ultimate vote . So , I can 't be sure that you will actually
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22 , 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 59 of68
defer it even though the staff recommends it so I need to be here in case action is taken so that is the
reason. Thank you .
Motion and Vote: Council member Hewitt moved to defer Agenda Item No . 14-190 to the October 20 ,
2014 Regularly Scheduled Meeting. Councilmember Mohrig seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously (7-0).
4. Consideration ofRZ14-07 -To Amend Article VI, Division 13 -TR (Townhouse Residential)
District.
(Agenda Item No. 14-191)
ORDINANCE NO. 14-09 -219
(First Pres entation at July 7, 2014 Regular City Council Me eting)
(Discussed at July 14, 2014 City Council Work Session)
(Deferr ed at July 21,2014 Regular Me eting to Sept emb er 22, 2014 Regular City Coun cil Meetin g)
(Kathl een Field, Community Developm ent Director)
Kathleen Field, Community Development Director
Thank you. Mr. Mayor and members of the council, the Community Development Department does
recommend approval this evening of the proposed text amendment as discussed below. This zoning
district is not directly impacted by the current zoning moratorium in place so we see no reason why not
to move this particular zoning district forward. Just by way of summary, this amendment to the TR
district is in response to , I'm sorry; currently the way the district is currently written, the detached single
family residences are permitted . In the past, this has caused confusion with the public. It is assumed
that only townhouse products are permitted to be developed. With the proposed amendment, staff has
deleted the allowance of the detached single family units. The existing RS-A residential district
provides the comparable district that the TR allowed for a detached single famil y development. So, in
essence, we took out all references to single-family because this is a TR zoning district and it was very
confusing. So, we took out the single-family but the single-family can be taken care of within the
existing RS-A which is a residential single-family zone. It is really a way of cleaning up this TR district
which we really feel should be for townhomes. So, we took out the reference to the single-family but
we also made some additional tweaks to it to clean it up a bit. And , such as the fact that we have asked
for open space requirements based on the total number of units developed, rear loaded units adjacent to
exterior streets, height requirement to be consistent with other residential districts recently amended ,
reduce the number of units within one building from 20 to 8 which is consistent with the requirement of
the Deerfield Form Based Code. It is staff's opinion that this would not create any future problems for
the development community. In addition, the form based code in the Hwy . 9 and Crabapple areas
provide needed tools to develop a townhouse product. The only area that is not within the Form Based
Code area which would have potential rezoning to this TR district is the Bethany Bend area between
Hwy . 9 and Morris Road. So, we are talking about a very small area that would not come under the
existing Form Based Codes of which this zoning district would apply. You have in front of you tonight ,
the changes are shown in blue that we made and , in addition, we did find a couple of other corrections
that really were gratuitous and duplicative and so the ones in yellow we thought we should also make
changes to. So , I am happy to go through with you the changes to the TR. On the first page essentially
we took out the reference to the single-family dwelling and on the second page we refer to our
maximum height limit of two stories with a maximum height of 28 feet to average finished grade to the
bottom of the roof eave. Now, this is the new height definition that we have been using and we were
Regular Meeting of the Milton City CounciJ
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 60 of68
going to discuss that at our next meeting but the fact that it is coming up, we have our City Architect
here, so if you would like to have a quick explanation of why we have changed to this and why we don't
feel that this is duly onerous to developers to comply with, I am happy to have Bob come up if you
would like.
Mayor Lockwood
I would like to have a quick explanation since he is here.
Bob Busemi, City Architect
Mayor and Council, with the height, the old height definition took it from average grade, average
finished grade around the building, to the mid-point of the roof. And, what that really did was force
roofs to be at a very low pitch because most people were looking for the floor to floor height to be at the
maximum 9-10 feet. So, what we have done, and it is very consistent with the form based product, is
measured height from the average finished grade to the height of the eave which is where the gutter is on
the roof line. And, I can state that every townhouse that has come under review, and I do several of
them, probably 15 a week, we have a number of townhouses that come in, all meet this definition. In
fact, the development community has told me that they really like this definition because now they can
put 8 on 12; lOon 12 roof pitches and get the height on the roof that they are looking for.
Councilmember Lusk
Going down to sub article (e) minimum TR development frontage shall be; it is changed from 35 to 150
feet. Define development front. That's not one single unit?
Kathleen Field
No, Robyn can do a very good explanation so, Robyn, can you take on this one.
Robyn MacDonald
So, the idea is that it would just; let's say that you had a development that just had an entrance and it
was a long driveway; it is just the frontage of the entire development would need to be 150 feet because
if you could imagine if it was a 50 foot right of way then a 50 foot setback on either side which is
typically required on development standards so we just put it up front in the ordinance to show that you
really need 150 feet on the perpendicular.
Councilmember Lusk
Not just 35 which would be the width.
Robyn MacDonald
It wouldn't fit a right of way, anyway.
Councilmember Lusk
It is almost like a flag lot.
Kathleen Field
So, this was one of the clean ups that we did . Are you all satisfied with Bob's explanation? Do you
have any more questions? Okay, thank you, Bob. Under subsection (d) we changed the minimum lot
width to be 25 feet because we are finding that the products that are coming in and the type of
townhouse product like what we want, we want a wider product, we don't want a 20 foot wide product,
so we made it 25. Then, we have already talked about (e); (f) we thought was duplicative with (d) in
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 61 of68
that lot frontage and lot width are really the same and so we didn't need (f) at all; so we took out (f); (g)
the minimum heated floor area we changed from I, 100 square feet to 1,800 square feet because you
have at least a 2 floor townhome if not a 3 and I, I 00 makes a pretty small footprint for a townhome. So,
we really thought, and we did give you a little chart that shows that our townhomes are coming in much
larger anyway, they are coming in anywhere in the 2,000-2, I 00 square foot range so we didn't feel that
1,800 was duly onerous. Then, we changed the minimum front yard, rather than 40 feet back, again
because we have our new guidelines for our form based codes where we are trying to relate more to the
sidewalk and pushing the buildings up toward the sidewalk so rather than having the 40 foot setback it is
now just 20 feet so it brings those townhomes up closer to the sidewalk which is the intent of the form
based code. Same with the minimum side yard, again, you are bringing it up closer to the street. Under
U) minimum accessory structure requirements we were saying the same thing twice so we took out one
of the sentences. Under (k) we took out (k) because there was a maximum lot coverage and we felt that
all the setback requirements that are in place that we didn't really need to say that it shall not exceed
50% of the total land area; we just thought we would let the setback sort of limit what the coverage is.
Then, required open space, the intent was to say a minimum of 1,000 square feet per unit of open space
will be required when you have over 50 units in a development and if you have under 50 units there
should be a minimum of 750 square feet per unit of open space. So, those are new requirements and we
wanted to make sure you understood it was per unit.
Councilmember Mohrig
Kathy, the minimum square foot; you made a distinction a little bit earlier about Bethany Bend down to
Morris regarding townhome restrictions. The minimum square footage, does that apply in that area
also?
Kathleen Field
Yes, because this zoning district will be applied to the Bethany Bend area. That is really the only area
that has TR zoning in it. Everything else is covered under the form based code. Okay, so page 3, the
last page, under (3) a minimum 80% of any common wall shall be contiguous with each adjoining unit.
And, that means that each of the walls have to be against each other for at least 80% of that distance and
that is to alleviate these townhomes we have had where you have a little wall in between them which
really isn't a townhome that they have tried to show a connection. So, that is to alleviate that. And, then
(4) when units are located on property adjacent to an exterior street we want them to be rear loaded and
that the front fa<;:ade should face the street. We don't want to see the rear of townhomes on exterior
streets. And, we want each unit to provide two off street parking spaces within the principal structure.
And, on page 3 on the top, the first one, no more than 8 dwelling units shall form a single building.
There has been some discussion about how many we should allow to be in a row and we went to the
form based code which currently says no more than 8 units and so we used that as the number because it
has already been established within the Deerfield and Crabapple form based code. So, that is how we
got that number eight. So, those are the changes that we made. There were tweaks, a few additions, and
then clearly we took out the single-family reference. But, there is no reason for this, if you so decide, to
not move forward tonight.
Walter Rekuc, 615 Scarlet Oak Trail, Milton, Georgia 30004
I just want to say that first of all that what is online for this TR is not the same as what you are looking
at. So, I have no idea what changed between whenever and when I printed this out. You have been told
that there are three different levels of comments. One in yellow, I don't have any of those comments, so
I don't know what I am looking at. I've been given 2 minutes to look at it. I will say on the height
regulation, I'm not sure why we are changing it to 40 feet but the biggest problem I've got is this 2
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 62 of68
stories. Now, I don't care if you say 28 feet or not from finished grade to the bottom of the roof eave,
that tells me that it is still two stories. Most townhomes I see are 3 stories. Again, I don't understand
why that is and it is something I brought up the last time. Under (e) the minimum development
frontage, these projects typically don't have a right-of-way coming into the project. These are typically
private streets. So, it could very well be that there is no right-of-way. That is basically at 24 foot wide
street and that is it. And, then you are saying that you want to have another 50 and 50. Well, if there is
no right-of-way, why are we going to this extreme? Why aren't we making it all the way up to 150 feet?
Same thing with heated floor areas, you are saying here is what the general sizes are, I have not seen that
table, the table was not part of the report that was online. Again, on the open space, they changed things
there as well. They are saying 1,000 square feet per unit. And, again, that is a lot of square footage you
are asking for. Or, 750 square feet per unit if it is less than 50. That could be a good bit of land that
they are giving up for a townhome which is very unusual. Now, I'm not exactly 100% sure what they
are considering open space in this criteria if it is just landscaping or not; around the building and how
they are going to consider that. I'm sorry, I have to flip and make sure I am getting all the yellows
everything else right. And, then they changed the number of units from 20 down to 8. Again,
sometimes it makes more sense to be at that 10 or 12 number of units. I'm not sure why we are
dropping all the way down to 8. Again, that is just something that does not make sense. And, the last
thing, each unit shall provide two off-street parking spaces within the principal structure. I just want to
understand what kind of parking space we are calling out. Are we calling out vehicular? Are we calling
out trucks? Are we calling out motorcycles? Let's make sure we are defining what kind of parking
space you are asking for what. Those are my comments. I will be glad to answer any questions. That is
my position on this. Thank you very much.
Councilmember Lusk
Question for Kathy. On ganged units where there is zero separation, how do our fire codes address fire
separation?
Robyn MacDonald
I believe they have to have a certain amount of; like a one hour wall. There is building code that they
have to meet when they are together or do you mean between two buildings?
Kathy Field
Between two buildings it is 10 feet.
Councilmember Lusk
Where units are joined, are we calling for two hour, four hour walls?
Kathy Field
It is a 2 hour. Our architect is saying 2 hours.
Councilmember Thurman
The two stories; I'm assuming if you have a garage; a pull under garage, if it has another room there is
that considered a story? How are the two stories calculated? That would be a pretty high ceiling if you
have two stories at 28 feet.
Bob Busemi
Under the definition of story, we don't count basements, attics, or third story retreats that don't take up a
full floor.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 63 of68
Councilmember Thurman
So, if you have a pull under garage and it still has a room and all; one finished area in it, because it is
primarily a garage, it is not considered a story?
Bob Busemi
That is correct. We have always been treating it as a lower level. The way they label the drawings is
when you go up to the first floor; that is the habitable floor. So, that lower level is not treated as a story.
Robyn MacDonald
Under the definition of story; it excludes basements and attics.
Councilmember Thurman
That would be a basement. ..
Councilmember Mohrig
It is not below grade.
Councilmember Thurman
It is not below grade.
Robyn MacDonald
A portion of it is below grade whether ...
Councilmember Thurman
A portion of it may not even be below grade. It may just be that the bottom level is a garage with a ... or
maybe just a portion of it is below grade. I don't know. Does it need to say how many stories it is or
does it just need to say a maximum of 28; or 3 stories or 28 feet.
Bob Busemi
We will just limit it to height because it will limit the number of stories just naturally.
Councilmember Mohrig
To Karen's point, most of the townhomes that are on Bethany Bend and even coming off from Highway
9 are 3 stories technically because they are not below grade and they do have a garage that you pull in so
there are two living spaces plus a finished space on that first level.
Kathleen Field
I would suggest we say three stories because if you just go by height you could conceivably put a fourth
story; you could squeeze a fourth story in and we don't want that because you are going to have very
low ceilings. I think we would be happy; the intent is to have 3 stories at 28 feet so I think that would be
great; that would work.
Mayor Lockwood
Okay, so do we want to say three stories now?
Councilmember Thurman
Yes, three stories.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 64 of68
Mayor Lockwood
Okay, any other questions for staff? Does somebody want to make a motion?
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Lusk made a motion to approve Agenda Item No. 14-191 with one
amendment in Section 64-669 (a) to read three stories instead of two as follows:
Sec. 64-669. Development standards.
(a) Height regulations. There shall be a maximum height limit of three stories with the
maximum height of 28 feet from average finished grade to the bottom of the roof
eave.
Councilmember Kunz seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
5. Consideration of RZ14-08 -To Amend Article VI, Division 4 -R-2 (Single Family
Residential) District.
(Agenda Item No. 14-192)
(First Presentation at July 7,2014 Regular City Council Meeting)
(Discussed at July 14, 2014 City Council Work Session)
(Deferred at July 21, 2014 Regular Meeting to September 22, 2014 Regular City Council Meeting)
(Kathleen Field, Community Development Director)
Kathleen Field, Community Development Director
Yes, thank you. The Community Development Department recommends deferral of this item to the
October 20, 2014 council meeting.
Walter Rekuc, 615 Scarlet Oak Trail, Milton, Georgia 30004
I just want to commend the staff. I do believe that a conservation subdivision is a good thing to go
ahead and create but it is a very complex ordinance to write. It is not something that can be simply done
or really understood by most planners and such so I do recommend that you really probably need to hire
someone who understands the nuances especially with septic being the primary means of handling
public sewer. Thank you.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Thurman moved to defer Agenda Item No. 14-192 to the October
20, 2014 Regularly Scheduled Meeting. Counci1member Mohrig seconded the motion. The motion
passed unanimously (7-0).
6. Consideration ofRZI4-11 -To Amend Chapter 64, Article XXI, of the Zoning Ordinance to
Create a Conservation Subdivision Ordinance.
(Agenda Item No. 14-268)
(Kathleen Field, Community Development Director)
Kathleen Field, Community Development Director
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday , September 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 65 of68
Thank you . Mr. Mayor, the Conununity Development Department reconunends withdrawal of RZ 14-11
in order to allow further dialogue between the city and the community stakeholders.
Walter Rekuc, 615 Scarlet Oak Trail, Milton, Georgia 30004
I mixed up the two but on the R2 , that is the one I meant to say. That is another one where they haven 't
really changed anything and I keep on seeing the same thing and I wish they did something different but
on this one, I do commend them . They do need to have some serious understanding of the conservation
subdivisions and tough ordinance. Thank you .
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Longoria moved to withdraw Agenda Item No. 14-268.
Councilmember Mohrig seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
Councilmember Longoria made a motion to move to new business at this time (10:45 p.m.).
Councilmember Lusk seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
1. Consideration of an Ordinance to Amend Chapter 2 , Article VI, Division 13, Fund Balance
Policy -To Modify How the Minimum Fund Balance and Strrplus Fund Balance are Determined
and to Redefine How Surplus Fund Balance Can be Used.
(Agenda Item No . 14-246)
(First Pres entation at September 8,2014 Regular Council Me etin g)
(Stacey inglis, Assistant City Manager)
2. Consideration of an Ordinance to Adopt Amendments to the Fiscal 2014 Budget for Each
Fund of the City of Milton, Georgia Amending the Amounts Shown in Each Budget as
Expenditures, Amending the Several Items of Revenue Anticipations , Prohibiting Expenditures
to Exceed Appropriations , and Prohibiting Expenditures to Exceed Actual Funding Available.
(Agenda Item No. 14-248)
(First Presentation at Sept ember 8,2014 Regular Council Meeting)
(Public Hearing at S ept emb er 22,2014 Regular City Council Meeting)
(Sta cey Inglis , Assistant City Manager)
3 . Consideration of an Ordinance of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton, Georgia, to
Adopt the Fiscal 2015 Budget for Each Fund of the City of Milton, Georgia Appropriating the
Amounts Shown in Each Budget as Expenditures , Adopting the Several Items of Revenue
Anticipations, Prohibiting Expenditures to Exceed Appropriations , and Prohibiting Expenditures
to Exceed Actual Funding Available .
(Agenda Item No . 14-249)
(Discu ss ed at August II , 2 01 4 Council Work Sess ion)
(Discussed at August 2 3, 2014 Special Called Work Session)
(First Pres entation and First Public Hearing at September 8,2014 Regular Council Mee ting)
(Second Public Hearing at Sept ember 22,2014 Regular City Council Meeting)
(Chris Lagerbloom, City Manager)
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Counci I
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 66 of68
Agenda Item No. 14-269 was moved by Motion and Vote to after Consent Agenda.
NEW BUSINESS
1. Consideration of a Resolution Appointing a Member to the Parks and Recreation Advisory
Board for the City of Milton by Appointing a Member for District 3/Post 2.
(Agenda Item No. 14-269)
RESOLUTION NO . 14-09-311
(Mayor Joe Lockwood)
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Longoria moved to approve Agenda Item No. 14-269.
Councilmember Thurman seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
2. Consideration of a Resolution Appointing a Member to the City of Milton Design Review Board
At Large.
(Agenda Item No. 14-270)
RESOLUTION NO. 14-09-312
(Mayor Joe Lockwood)
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Hewitt moved to approve the appointment of Ed Parsons to the
Design Review Board at Large. Councilmember Lusk seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously (7-0).
3. Consideration of a Resolution Unilaterally Modifying the Sewer Service Map between the City
of Milton and Fulton County Pursuant to the Amended Fulton/Milton Sewer Intergovernmental
Agreement.
(Agenda Item No. 14-271)
RESOLUT ION NO. 14 -09 -313
(Chris Lagerbloom, City Manager)
Robyn MacDonald, Principal Planner
This is a piece of property consisting of two parcels that the Community Development staff approved as
a concept site plan for the development of three parcels for a total of 12.8 acres on the west side of
Arnold Mill Road pursuant to the Crabapple Form Based Code. The southern parcel contains
approximately 8.2 acres which is currently depicted on the sewer service map that you previously
approved, however, the northern two parcels containing approximately 4.6 acres are not on the sewer
map based on the fact that the Crabapple Form Based Code recommended T5 and T4 transect zones
which are fairly high density and would require sewer. The applicant has received an approved concept
site plan from our department for the total but it includes the 4.6 acres requiring an extension of sanitary
sewer to it. Due to Milton's Intergovernmental Agreement with Fulton County, the county is the waste
and sewer provider to Milton.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 67 of68
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Longoria mo ved to approve Agenda Item No. 14-271.
Councilmember Lusk seconded the motion . The motion passed unanimously (6-1). Councilmember
Hewitt was in opposition.
MA YOR AND COUNCIL REPORTS
ST AFF REPORTS
Councilmember Hewitt made a motion to move the Unfinished Business items to a Special Called
Council Meeting on September 29, 2014 at 6:00 p.rn. Councilmember Mohrig seconded the motion.
The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Mohrig moved to go into Executive Session to discuss Land
Acquisition and Potential and Pending Litigation at 10:48 p .m. Councilmember Hewitt seconded the
motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
RECONVENE
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Thurman moved to reconvene the Regular Meeting at 11 :45 p.m.
Councilmember Kunz seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
ADJOURNMENT
(Agenda Item No. 14-272)
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Kunz moved to adjourn the Regular Meeting at 11:46 p.m .
Councilmember Hewitt seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (7-0).
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 22,2014 at 6:00 pm
Page 68 of68
After no further discussion the Regular Council Meeting adjourned at 11 :46 p.m.
Date Approved: October 20 , 2014.
Sudie AM Gordon, City Clerk
STATE OF GEORGIA )
) AFFIDAVIT RE: CLOSURE OF
COUNTY OF FULTON ) OPEN MEETINGS
)
CITY OF MILTON )
Personally appeared before the undersigned officer, duly authorized under the laws of the State of Georgia
to administer oaths, JOE LOCKWOOD, who in his capacity as Mayor and the person presiding over a Council
meeting of the CITY OF MILTON, and after being first duly sworn, certifies under oath and states to the best of his
knowledge and belief the following:
At a Regularly Scheduled City Council Meeting held on September 22,2014, at 6:00 PM the Council voted
to go into closed session and exclude the public from all or a portion of its meeting. The legal exceptions
applicable to the exempt matters addressed during such closed meeting are as follows:
[Check or initial as appropriate]
1. X discussion or voting to authorize negotiations to purchase, dispose of, or lease
property; authorizing the ordering of an appraisal related to the acquisition or disposal of real estate;
entering into contract to purchase, to dispose of, or lease property subject to approval in a subsequent
public vote; or entering into an option to purchase, dispose of, or lease real estate subject to approval in a
subsequent public vote pursuant to O.CG.A, 50-l4-3(b)(1)(B-E);
2. discussing or deliberating upon the appointment, employment, compensation, hiring,
disciplinary action or dismissal, or periodic evaluation or rating of a public officer or employee or
interviewing applicants for the executive head of the city with the vote on any such matter coming in
public pursuant to O.C.G.A. 50-l4-3(b)(2);
3. X attorney/client privilege in order to consult and meet with legal counsel pertaining
to pending or potential litigation, settlement, claims, administrative proceedings or other judicial actions
brought or to be brought by or against the agency or any officer or employee or in which the agency or
any officer or employee may be directly involved, pursuant to O.CG.A. 50-14-2(1).
4. other (explanation):
I certify that the subject matter of the closed meeting or the closed portion of the meeting was devoted to
matters of official business or policy, with the.exceptions provided by law as set forth above.
MAY ~