HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes CC - 03/14/2016 - MINS 03 14 16 WS (Migrated from Optiview)1
Work Session of the Milton City Council
Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Page 1 of 15
This summary is provided as a convenience and service to the public, media, and staff. It is not
the intent to transcribe proceedings verbatim. Any reproduction of this summary must include this
notice. Public comments are noted and heard by Council, but not quoted. This document includes
limited presentation by Council and invited speakers in summary form. This is an official record
of the Milton City Council Meeting proceedings. Official Meetings are audio and video recorded.
The Work Session of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton was held on March 14,
2016 at 6:00 PM.
Councilmembers Present: Councilmember Karen Thurman, Councilmember Matt Kunz,
Councilmember Bill Lusk, Councilmember Burt Hewitt, Councilmember Joe Longoria and
Councilmember Rick Mohrig.
Mayor Joe Lockwood presided over the meeting.
• Work Sessions are an informal setting to update Council on business items.
• No votes will be taken during these sessions.
• There are four (4) items on our Agenda tonight.
• Public comment is allowed that is germane to an Agenda Item.
• If you wish to speak you are required to fill out a comment card and turn it into the City
Clerk staff.
• Public comment will be allowed for a total of 10 minutes per agenda item and no more
than 2 minutes per person.
• Public comment will be heard at the beginning of each Item.
• Once the item is called, no other comment cards will be accepted.
Agenda Item #1 was read.
1. Discussion of the Capital Plan and Upcoming Educational Sales Tax
Referendum in May.
(Patrick Burke, Deputy Superintendent of Operations, Fulton County Schools)
Patrick Burke, Deputy Superintendent of Operations, Fulton County Schools
After watching the video I have just shown you, I would like to highlight a few things that are
specific to the Milton community. As you know, school districts will always have a capital plan.
We are constantly assessing what our needs are. We go through a very rigorous process in how
we assess our needs. Capital is everything that is touched by a student throughout the day. We
have two pots of money. One is the M&O budget which consists of teacher salaries, custodians,
utilities, etc. The other pot of money goes toward student enhancements. We are planning to reuse
the old Milton High School site for STEM Academy students. We are looking for corporate and
personal partnerships to help offset the costs associated with this type of learning facility. The
STEM academy student will not have the traditional high school experience such as a football
Work Session of the Milton City Council
Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
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team, band, etc. The largest renovation project we have embarked upon is Northwestern Middle
School. Hopewell Middle School needs a new roof and Milton High School is deficient in some
areas that Cambridge High School already has so we want to bring it up to par with the newer high
school. We want all of our schools to provide the same amenities. We are also beginning the
"One to One" learning environment for grades 6-12. We recently made a $20 million investment
in textbooks and they were out of print the day we made that purchase. We need to get smarter
about how we are investing our money. All of the things that teachers use to teach our students is
paid for out of this fund. We also have to pay for approximately 70 buses per year from this fund.
The referendum is May 24th. We hope that you will all support this initiative.
Agenda Item 42 was read.
2. Discussion Regarding Community Septic.
(Carter Lucas, Assistant City Manager)
PUBLIC COMMENT
Laura Bentley, 2500 Bethany Church Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
On December 7, 2015, our community voiced strong opposition to land use that increases density
by utilizing community septic systems. Allowing a community septic solution is a bad idea for
the following reasons:
1. It facilitates homes on smaller parcels greatly detracting from the very thing that makes
Milton unique. If community septic was being considered as a solution next to our
property, I would be very unhappy. The possibility of the homes on significantly reduced
lot sizes would greatly impact the value of neighboring parcels. Community septic most
likely allows a density increase which financially benefits the developer but leaves Milton
was an overwhelming strain on our infrastructure which greatly impacts everyone's quality
of life.
2. Risks, and I speak from experience, septic systems are manageable but fragile. For any of
you with a house full of teenagers on septic, you know what I mean. Shared systems ... I
don't think so. The drain fields in a shared system will fail more rapidly than with our
private systems. New space for drain fields will be limited due to small lot sizes. Where
do you go to find new perk drain fields when homes are built in close proximity? Finally,
the community septic represents a liability to the Milton taxpayers. I am fine managing
my own waste system but think it unfair for the rest of us to potentially bear this burden.
Milton's hardworking staff has stated that Milton does not support community septic. I
ask that City Council uphold this position. Thank you.
Tim Becker, 15625 Canterbury Chase, Milton, Georgia 30004
I am speaking tonight in opposition to the community septic, however, I am not going to argue on
the merits of the issue as others tonight will speak compellingly about why community septic is a
bad idea for Milton; and it is a bad idea. My objection is more fundamental. My objection is that
the citizens of Milton do not want community septic. Community septic has been brought up many
Work Session of the Milton City Council
Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
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times and debated at length. Nothing has really changed since the issue was last raised just three
months ago. Every time you have said "no" to community septic. So, my question is, why are we
here tonight? Well, the sensible reason is that staff and the Planning Commission have requested
council guidance on community septic. The real reason is that "no" is never really "no" in Milton
and everybody understands that. So, staff and appointed committees are always left wondering
what to do. Either they do what they think is right, hoping that council does not take them to the
woodshed, or they do nothing hoping for divine guidance from council. And, I do not blame them.
Both staff and the Planning Commission were poorly treated during the CSO debate and rightfully
feel disempowered. The real truth is that community septic is being kept alive by special interests
that have embedded themselves in our city government. These are the developers, land owners,
and septic system vendors. They are all here tonight. They have the money, connections, time
and attorneys to wage this fight forever. It took them literally ten years in Gwinnett County to get
a conservation subdivision approved along the Yellow River, but they did prevail, and today 196
homes are crammed on 50 acres of pristine land along the Yellow River and not one square inch
of buildable land was conserved. Environmentalism is merely a marketing scheme for these
special interests. I cringe when I hear them misquote Randall Arndt which they regularly do. So,
let's this time say "no" and mean it. Let's put community septic issues to rest once and for all.
Let's listen to the citizens and send the special interest groups home. Thank you.
Matt Vinson, 105 Whipporwill Court, Eatonton, Georgia 30004
I am in support of community wastewater. I represent individual septic and community
wastewater. I am the past president of the Georgia Wastewater Association which represents
individual septic tank installers. I am here to dispel issues that keep coming up in these meetings.
I was a health inspector. I worked for the county board of health. I've done permitting for
individual septic. I worked for a septic product manufacture. I teach continuing education to the
health inspectors and the septic system installers so I know the business. I know community
systems. I operate the system at Serenbe. A lot of the issues that are being brought up are not true
or, of course, you can find one case of anything if you look for it. Community systems fail quicker;
that is not true. They probably don't fail nearly as quickly because they are engineered by
professionals like Andy here. They are monitored monthly. EPD monitors them and reports are
submitted. Enforcement action is required if they do not meet the requirements set by Georgia
EPD. Individual septic systems have no monitoring; it is up to the homeowner, and I dare you to
try to enforce a failed system to get repaired. I drive by one every time I go to Serenbe. You can
see how it has failed over the years on Google Earth and no one is doing anything about it. Odors
keep being mentioned. Odors are a matter of operation and planning. I operate a 400,000 gallon
a day decentralized system on the campus of Emory University. It is located inside of a
greenhouse. There are no odors. So, you can plan for that and you can operate around odors if
that is an issue or concern. As far as having a small lot and having room for repairs, you don't
repair community wastewater systems on the lot. Everything goes to a large area. I am available
tonight to answer any questions you may have.
Jack Lindon, 14810 East Bluff Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
I am in support of community septic systems. You are probably aware that over the past few years,
the Milton Grows Green committee has conducted workshops to inform people about how to
maintain and repair their septic systems. I know from those programs that there are a lot of
problems with individual septic systems in the Milton area. The main issue I want to talk about
Work Session of the Milton City Council
Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
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tonight is the obligation to the Milton citizens to pay for any repairs that may occur with these
systems. I would like to pass out a copy of a paragraph to all the council. This paragraph appears
on every plat that is approved by the City of Milton. It is titled, "drainage" and it describes the
responsibilities that the owner of the subdivision has to the city regarding the drainage systems.
In summary, this paragraph states that the owner on record releases the City of Milton from any
and all liability and responsibility from any problems with the drainage features. The Director of
Public Works may conduct any emergency maintenance that is necessary to remedy any condition
that is potentially harmful to life or property. Such emergency maintenance is not be confused
with the city's right to seek reimbursement for those expenses. What this states, basically, is that
if I have, for example, a retention pond in my subdivision held back by an earthen dam and that
dam fails, if the homeowner's association decides not to repair it, the city can repair it and then
charge the homeowner's for the cost of the repair. The idea that the citizens of Milton are going
to be held responsible for the financial obligations of repairs to a community septic system is
simply not true. Thank you.
Julie Zahner Bailey, 255 Hickory Flat Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
As you embark on another discussion tonight regarding community septic, along with many
citizens, I request that you please prohibit community septic in the City of Milton. This issue
needs to be definitely addressed once and for all. This is not a new issue yet it seems to continue
to rear its head and every few months, despite community members thinking that is no longer being
pursued. Community septic is effectively a catalyst to private sewer versus the density that limits
individual septic tanks that has always been the rule in Milton. The proliferation of community
septic in Milton would allow for higher density than what is currently allowed with individual
septic tanks. Community septic allows a developer to bypass the one acre minimum. In many
instances, the undeveloped land in Milton actually yields a higher amount of land to each home
due to topographical constraints and soil types. There is a real example on Thompson Road where
the soil via percolation test on a 70 acre parcel only allows approximately 30 homes. Had a
community septic system been allowed, it would have allowed 70 homes; that is 40 more homes
than what would have been allowed otherwise. This was one of the real life examples discussed
during the deliberations surrounding the CSO and there are, of course, many more similar
examples. The recent issue of the CSO was denied 7-0 by each of you on December 7, 2015 for a
number of reasons, one of which was that the CSO would allow for higher density in Milton via
community septic systems. In addition to the higher density that community septic systems
introduce, in the event of failure or insolvency, they also present a financial liability to the City of
Milton and thus the taxpayers. These private sewer systems do fail. The EPD said so, the experts
have said so, developers have said so, and the city has said so. The EPD presented to the City of
Milton at the Alpharetta City Center in Crabapple, the EPD stood before the City of Milton staff
and the citizens and said that the systems fail, we don't have enough staff to supervise them and
we would want the City of Milton to be the trustee to take on the financial liability. They said over
and over that they do indeed fail. We need to continue to listen to these folks because when these
systems fail, and they do, ultimately it would be the City of Milton that would have to step in
which means taxpayers would be on the hook for developer's community septic systems. The City
of Milton was supposed to be free of expansion of sewer yet the allowance of community septic
would put the city right in the middle of the sewer business. Those risks include bringing higher
density to the areas that would previously never have had higher density. The risk of failure, the
city having to take them over, the risk of taxpayers having to bear the cost of those takeovers,
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Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
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health risks of failing systems on adjacent landowners, etc. The City of Milton and each of you as
our individual and collective representatives, today, recognize the liability of the multiple private
community septic systems and you recognize and acknowledge that the risk is simply too great.
Regardless of your individual views, you recognize that the collective risk to us as a city and the
taxpayers is too great. You have demonstrated wisdom on this issue and many citizens are
encouraging you to continue to demonstrate that wisdom on this issue on behalf of all citizens in
Milton. You also have a fiduciary responsibility to prohibit community septic and therefore,
ensure that there is not a proliferation of community septic in Milton. Nothing has changed since
December 2015 and at the time the denial of the CSO took place, except for the issue of community
septic is coming back in part because a rezoning request on Ebenezer Road that requests approval
to introduce community septic so that they can have land lots as small as one quarter acre on land
that otherwise is currently zoned AG -1. Community septic systems should be prohibited in Milton.
They introduce higher density than what citizens want and they introduce a huge financial liability
to the city and taxpayers. The public health, safety, and welfare of citizens require the city to
prohibit community septic. The majority of citizens don't even realize that this issue is back before
you. This item was just put on the agenda last week and we only just found out about it. Most
folks assumed that community septic is not back before you. This issue needs to be resolved
clearly so that all citizens can recognize that we don't need to be on stand by for every meeting for
every week wondering if this issue is going to come back yet again. This is the introduction of
private sewer. It does bear financial risk to the city. We ask that you please prohibit this now and
take care of this now so that we do not have the risk of financial liability as well as higher density.
Citizens are looking for you to continue to have the wisdom that you demonstrated today. Thank
you for your consideration and all that you do each day.
Bernard Wolff, 1000 Lackey Road, Milton, Georgia 30004
I wanted to speak about this in terms of what we have done at Lahkapani and also as a citizen of
Milton. The main thing that we have heard is that the primary reason people are moving here is
because of natural areas with trails where people can get away from AG -1 subdivisions. You need
to see what type of technology is used for a community septic system. I am in favor of a
community system but only the type that addresses the concerns we have just heard. We need
something that is simple, easy to maintain, effective and odorless. We have neighbors on Cox
Road that complain of odor coming from a Fulton County maintained system. There are also
numerous individual septic tank failures that we are all aware of. It seems as if our biggest concern
regarding community septic systems is higher density. To me, smaller lots means more natural
areas to enjoy. Our plan with Lahkapani is not to use higher density. We want to have more
natural areas and trails for people to enjoy. Our vision for Lahkapani is a win-win for everybody.
Development costs will be lower because there will be more undisturbed natural area. The visual
impact will be much better than the AG- I subdivisions that are being built all over Milton. I would
like for Lahkapani to remain one piece of land with natural streams and buffers for children and
families to enjoy a pristine piece of property in a rural environment. Thank you.
Charlie Bostwick, 227 Sandy Springs Place, Sandy Springs, Georgia 30328
I think there is a simple solution here and that is to allow community septic systems but to limit
the number of homes to those that would normally be allowed with individual septic systems so
that there is no increased density. Milton needs to protect view sheds and protect trees and land
but not increase the traffic or density. There are ways to do this that is a win-win for everybody.
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In addition, remember that an HOA can be a trustee; the city does not necessarily have to carry the
financial burden of community septic systems. Also, the CSO was denied mainly because it was
written as a mandatory ordinance as opposed to it being optional; not because of the community
septic system issue.
Andrew Lovejoy, 4789 Broxbourne Drive, Milton, Georgia 30004
I have been to several of the meetings that have been held over the past 8-9 months and after
listening to all the comments and reading all the suggestions for the CSO ordinance, to me the
CSO sounds like a win for all the people who do not want higher density in Milton. As I
understand, the overall density would not be higher but just putting more homes on a smaller piece
of property leaving a big majority of the property undeveloped. As someone who designs
wastewater treatment systems, I have permitted several facilities through EPD and, yes,
community septic systems fail but individual septic systems fail as well. The difference is that
community septic systems are operated and maintained by licensed operators in Georgia versus
individual homeowners who don't understand what it takes to own and operate a septic system.
Furthermore, community septic systems have to be designed for certain peculation rates in addition
to the amount of land required to perk, we have to set aside 100% redundancy just in case over
time it fails, there is a 100% redundancy which is not the same standard for individual septic
systems. I am in support of the CSO.
END OF PUBLIC COMMENT
Steve Krokoff, Interim City Manager
The reason we have asked you to consider this issue once again is because of some of the
misconceptions regarding the original voting on the CSO and the implications it had on community
septic. A recent application brought this issue before us again and it is important to discuss that
currently a 10,000 gallon community septic system has been applied for through the county. Any
system over 10,000 gallons would have to be applied for through the state. The city would have
no regulatory authority over this system.
Councilmember Longoria
Do we have any ordinance in the city that addresses community septic systems in any way, shape
or form? Do we have anything that is written today that would provide guidance regarding
community septic systems?
Ken Jarrard, City Attorney
I am not aware of any ordinance we may have regarding community septic systems. Milton is
silent on this issue because community septic systems are regulated by the county and at the state
level depending on their size. I am not aware that the city has any prohibition on these types of
systems.
Councilmember Longoria
So, tonight, the city is asked to decide if we would give approval for a community septic system
to be installed on property within the city limits because of the application that has been received.
1
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Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
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Mayor Lockwood
Some of this discussion is for clarification. Since the CSO and community septic system thought
processes are tied together, even though the CSO was not approved, many individuals thought that
also meant that community septic systems were not allowed. However, approval for a community
septic system goes through the county or the state. The real issue is whether or not the city wants
to allow them and is there any benefit to having a community septic system versus individual septic
systems on the same exact layout on a piece of land. Do community septic systems benefit the
city and do they really allow for different development patterns?
Ken Jarrard
Aaron Meyer, who is here tonight and is from my office, is looking at some of the regulatory laws
with respect to this so feel free to ask him any questions as well on this matter.
Councilmember Kunz
Ken, do you have access to our current code right now?
Ken Jarrard
I do.
Councilmember Kunz
Do you have access to Section 50-184, Section B?
Ken Jarrard
Yes, that does reference the phrase community sewage disposal systems which is suggesting it is
allowed. It says when other systems are not available community septic systems may be used.
Councilmember Kunz
So we do not disallow it, from that perspective, but it is allowed in the current code as decided on
by the very first council who voted this in?
Ken Jarrard
What it says is: When the written opinion of Public Health and Welfare Department and the Public
Works Department, a public sanitary sewer is not available or accessible then alternative sewer
disposal for each lot or a community sewage disposal system may be used in compliance with the
standards of the Health and Wellness Department of Fulton County Sewage Treatment. It is one
of those languages that looks like it may have come from Fulton County. I do not know if the City
of Milton has taken any action, one way or another, with respect to that point.
Councilmember Lusk
To that point, this I assume was part of the code that was adopted back in 2006?
Ken Jarrard
Very likely, I would almost guarantee it. My point is that the City of Milton has not ever addressed
this issue at all.
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Councilmember Hewitt
The main thing is these community systems are allowed if they want to go through the permitting
process of the state or the county but that has to be overlaid with our zoning regulations of one
acre lots. So one acre lots with community septic system is really out of our discretion, however,
if one wants to go with a smaller than one acre lot with community septic then it is all our decision.
Is that correct?
Ken Jarrard
Right. When you take that on by way of another ordinance.
Councilmember Hewitt
So the real discussion is lot size?
Ken Jarrard
Yes.
Mayor Lockwood
In your opinion, is there an advantage to the citizens or the City of Milton in having a community
system versus individual systems on the exact same layout?
Ken Jarrard
The yield is not a land use or density issue then it is just a matter of how risk adverse the city is at
that point.
Mayor Lockwood
That's my question, where would there be more risk on the city, an individual system or
community system, even if there is a waiver system from the HOA?
Ken Jarrard
It depends on how the ordinance would be drafted. We are getting into a CSO on how we would
draft that but presumably collective systems that fail tend to warrant collective solutions, so there
would probably be people looking to the city to assist. That is going to be a function more on how
the policy or ordinance be drafted. We would have to try to mitigate against it. This is sort of a
risk mitigation exercise at this point.
Councilmember Thurman
The whole reason we looked at the possibility of doing community septic and the CSO is to
preserve land. I think we have totally lost sight of that. All of this misinformation out there that
people are trying to do this to get higher density, liability to the city, and community septic equals
private sewer has made us lose sight of the real reason we were looking into this in t the first place.
We are doing all of this to preserve some of what makes Milton unique. It is a shame that people
are misstating facts. We are trying to find ways to preserve the land that does not cost the tax
payers money. The way the CSO was written and the way it was mandatory made me very opposed
to it, but the whole idea of community septic as a way to group houses together to preserve acreage
is not something to be afraid of doing.
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Councilmember Kunz
I agree but my concern on this is a little different. When we had this issue prior it was mainly a
question of law and what we wanted to do with regards to why we were elected in the first place.
I campaigned on what we can do to preserve the equestrian culture of our community and I thought
the CSO was a way to do that. But what we have here now is a different issue. We have an
applicant that has made a request through our process. As we look at it, I think it is a little
dangerous and something we need to be careful about. As I look at our City Code, the applicant
has, according to our law, the right to get a community septic system. If we were to deny it based
on that, that is not a good thing. As a city, we have to uphold someone's rights. As we discuss
this, I agree with Councilmember Thurman on this but I think the issue might be a little different
in that we have a concern that is coming up immediately that we are going to have to deal with.
This is not a question of should we, this is a question for staff of how do we?
Carter Lucas, Director of Public Works
I do not know if I have an answer tonight on that. Certainly that is a bigger question that we would
have to go through as we work through this process. If it was something we felt was important
for the City of Milton and we wanted to move forward with these systems then it would be
something we would need to work through how to get there and the tools we would use to ensure
it was maintained, short-term and long-term. We have looked at these systems in various locations.
Those that have worked have been actively maintained and those that have not worked have not
been maintained. From a staff perspective, I think we want to make sure that we have enough
involvement even more than the state so the systems are designed, constructed, installed and
maintained appropriately.
Mayor Lockwood
Ken, is it correct that any discussions or actions we are having now will not affect the applicant?
It is based on the time they submit their application and the code at that time that affects their
application, correct?
Ken Jarrard
That is correct.
Mayor Lockwood
My concern with community septic can also be tied into CSO. I do believe it is a good concept if
we were starting from scratch and had 1,000 acre parcels like Serenbe, etc., where it has been
successful. But at this point, the City of Milton does not have a ton of large parcels and every
application where I am seeing community septic, there is a grouping of the houses, given that,
someone is going to lose where it be people -driving by or neighbors behind them. There is not a
big enough buffer. We started Milton with AG -1 and no sewer availability allowing for only one
acre lots. Well that may not be the best solution, but it has certainly kept Milton from growing
quite like our other nearby cities. My concern with so many few parcels left and taking the risk
of changing something now in this late stage of developing Milton would be like opening up
Pandora's Box. It would certainly change the landscape and possibly not for the better. I think
we have other ideas for conservation that will work better. Putting the liability on the city and its
taxpayers for the community systems if something happens to the systems, is not what we want.
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Councilmember Longoria
I think we have talked enough about this and should move on to the real substance of this
discussion.
Councilmember Mohrig
We have heard and seen a lot of misinformation. I do not think we have enough scientific data to
have a valid discussion on this. What systems are out there, what is the reliability, what are the
options? The issue of additional density, I think we have addressed that in zoning. We are not
going to allow more than one per acre. I think we need to take away the fear factors and see if
there is a way to protect the city and the taxpayers if we do this. If people are saying they want
this kind of subdivision, how can we protect the view and the buffer? I think we need more data
to be able to discuss this more thoroughly.
Mayor Lockwood
I think Bill has said it many times if we can put a man on the moon we can figure out a way to
engineer a system that would work here. But again, the real question is do we want to continue
with one acre minimum lots or introduce different lot sizes. As a larger land owner, I probably
would gain with community septic and CSO but from my perspective and what I hear from the
citizens, the majority of them do not want this. I am certainly going to stick by that with my
positions.
Councilmember Hewitt
My main concern is the liability factor. Ken, is there any way to absolutely insulate the city from
having any financial liability on something that we accept even though we are not the permitting
agency?
Ken Jarrard
I will say there is word written on paper and then there is reality.
Councilmember Hewitt
I want the reality.
Ken Jarrard
It is challenging to ever say there is 100% no possibility of liability or financial responsibility on
behalf of the city. Is there a way to draft documents that can achieve this? Yes, I believe there is.
We would have to build in some type of financial security to mitigate risks but it depends on how
involved the City of Milton wants to be on this. We have already discussed the fact that these are
regulated by the state and county levels, this Council has never taken any official action with
respect to community septic, but we need to decide how involve we want to be with this. We may
not want to have anything to do with this or do we want the city to draft conditions to make sure
there is some financial bond or a sinking fund that the HOA has to pay per year to ensure there is
a pool of money available if there is a failure. Are these fool proof? No, but there are certain ways
we can be methodical and protect as much as possible.
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Councilmember Hewitt
My concern with this is this is just a crack in the door and ten or fifteen years later that door gets
wider and people wanting more and more for the city to be responsible for. I have been thinking
hard about this and I have concerns we are opening the door to something we are not sure of what
we are opening it up to.
Mayor Lockwood
What has been your experience with these? Forsyth County has some, correct?
Ken Jarrard
Well I do not know if they have many more. I know in early 2000's we had some and the
experience there was unsatisfactory. They are now prohibited in Forsyth County. If you ask me
why, I will give you two reasons: 1) The experience some decades ago and perhaps the technology
was unsatisfactory, and 2) The county made an investment in sewer. If you make an investment
in sewer, community septic is not where you want to be because you want people on your sewer
system because that is where you get rate payers and funds to pay back your bonds.
Councilmember Thurman
I think if we do decide to go forward with this, I think it is going to be very important how the
details of the ordinance are written. I think absolutely this should not be a means to increase
density. I feel confident we can write an ordinance that will not increase density whatsoever. We
also have heard you may have 10 houses adjacent to your house and that was why I was against
the CSO because of the way it was written allowing for that to happen. I think with this we need
to look at what is important to our citizens and that is what is adjacent to the property, who does
this affect by having homes on smaller lots, etc. I think we have to look at this on a case by case
basis. It is not a one size fits all, which the CSO tried to do. We want to make sure we preserve
the land without liability to anyone else.
Councilmember Kunz
You mentioned before about the financial implications of this. I look at this as the cost of doing
business. We are about to put together a revenue bond for raising taxes between $150-$250 per
household in order for us to buy land, which is guaranteed. If we have a community septic system
that does achieve the objective of preserving land then you might have the possibility of something
going wrong but you will not have a guarantee it will. So comparatively what we are doing with
the revenue bond, a community septic system has a chance of not costing the residents anything.
Fear is just being spread that a community septic system will cost the city when it all reality it may
not. The financial side and risk management side of it can be approached in order to reduce cost
and risks. We are seeing more equestrian properties disappearing at the north end of the city. This
is a reality. We have to manage the risk in order to preserve the land in Milton. Unlike others I
am not afraid of risks and to do the right thing. It is probably less possible cost than what we are
trying to impose on the community with the bond that may or may not pass.
Councilmember Lusk
Do you have a copy of requirement that goes on the approved applications for development
regarding drainage and responsibility of the developer? I believe we have been using that standard.
Three or four years ago we had a drainage issue in Crooked Creek. I believe we went in there and
Work Session of the Milton City Council
Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Page 12 of 15
corrected that and were reimbursed for it. There is a reason for these requirements to go on the
approved development plans. Seems to me Ken, the same language could be used for community
septic systems. We are holding the developer responsible in cases where we have storm water
drainage issues, so why can't we use the same language and apply it to community septic systems?
Having said that, I am on the same track with Karen and her first statement. It is either a
misunderstanding or a lack of knowledge on the whole issue. I said in here one night last week
when the Planning Commission had a work session on the Green Space Bond that the major thing
we want to do in the city is to preserve green space. I see a contradiction here. I think we have
some tools in our toolbox, one being the community septic system to help preserve land. We have
seen plans presented here by Mr. Bostwick and Mr. Wolff that have really exemplified that
initiative of preserving as much green space as possible. The way to do that without cost to the
city is put it on the developer. The developer take care of preserving green space. And this one
tool that is available and has been on the books since the city's creation, is something that would
achieve the preservation of green space at no cost to the city. I think many got the perception that
we are going to put a group of one acre lots next to somebodies million dollar house. Well one of
the provisions of that ordinance was for several levels of review. It has to go through the Planning
Commission, Community Information meetings, Community Development and City Council
meetings to come up with the optimum esthetic layout for those types of subdivisions. So you see
all would be involved. I have to commend these developers with plans that show some of the best
designs for subdivision layouts by using this community septic tool. I do not think people have
spent enough time to understand the impact this can have on the community with preserving green
space. My major concern is preserving green space but not at the detriment to the joining land
owners. Let the landowners get involved in this whole planning process so it does not adversely
affect adjoining properties. It has pitied neighbor against neighbor because of this CSO and
community septic system. It has been the most decisive issue that has been in Milton. I think we
owe it ourselves to all get together and try to solve this. Understand we have tools here to address
this issue and come up with the most ideal situation we can as far a planning the remaining land
that is left in the city.
Councilmember Mohrig
Today, do we have community septic systems that are in our city? How many?
Carter Lucas
One at Birmingham Crossroads that serves Publix and the retail/office stores in that area. While
they are not specifically considered to be community septic systems, you have large septic systems
that serve Summit Hill Elementary School and Birmingham Falls. Those are the three that come
to mind as of now.
Councilmember Mohrig
Have we looked at the data and what type of systems they have? What are the facts with regards
about failures, maintenance? That is where I am at on this thing. Let's get away from the emotion
and look at science so we can make wise decisions versus making decisions upon misperceptions.
I think we need the facts to make the decisions. The reason we are talking about this today is
because an applicant has come forward and wanted to apply for community septic, which is
allowed today. This is not the council bringing this forward.
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LJ
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Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Page 13 of 15
Mayor Lockwood
I think we need to make a decision moving forward so that our staff knows because we will have
more applications coming forward. I certainly see the tying of CSO and community septic system
and having a wonderful development but being a realist I do not think that is going to keep the
same look we have always had. Technically you do not have to add any density. You could take
100 acres and put 100 home on it or you could put 100 homes on half acre lots and preserve the
rest as green space but reality is with the topo and the cost it would take to develop that land, I
don't seeing being able to put a 100 home on 100 acres and in essence then could lead to more
density. We have to make a decision as a council if we are in support of community septic and
developments that go along with that.
City Attorney Jarrard
To summarize our discussion tonight, based upon the certain capacities we have the Department
of Public Health that regulates community septic systems up to 10,000 gallons. The State EPD
regulates community septic systems that are over 10,000 gallons. And, if public sanitary sewer is
not available, a community septic system may be used when in compliance with the standards of
the Health and Wellness Department of Fulton County Sewer Regulations.
Mayor Lockwood
My opinion is that I would not like to see community septic going forward in the future but that
would not affect the current application in front of us tonight.
Councilmember Kunz
I am not in favor of denying community septic.
use in the future.
It may be a tool that we would like to be able to
Councilmember Mohrig
I would like more information on the pros and cons of community septic as well as any risks to
the city before we make a decision. I would also like us to look at each request for a community
septic system on an individual basis. Any language that is drafted needs to be very specific and
outline in detail what is and is not allowed so that we can prevent abuse of the system.
Councilmember Hewitt
In my mind, we need to decide if we want to allow lots that are smaller than one acre. That is what
community septic system will allow. If we want to allow houses on lots less than one acre, then
we can continue the discussion regarding all the aspects of community septic. However, until that
decision is made, gathering all of the specific information about community septic systems is not
necessary at this point.
Councilmember Thurman
I think the issue is not just if we want to allow smaller lot sizes. The issue is, are we willing to
accept smaller lots size if overall density is not increased in order to preserve land within the city.
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Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Page 14 of 15
Councilmember Hewitt
Should the city place a moratorium on accepting any more applications for community septic
systems until a decision is made regarding this issue?
City Attorney Jarrard
That is an excellent suggestion.
Agenda Item #3 was read.
3. Discussion Regarding Street Name for New City Hall and Naming of Downtown
Milton.
(Steven Krokoff, Interim City Manager)
Steven Krokoff, Interim City Manager
We have now reached the time that we need to begin to seriously discuss what we want to call the
name of the area where the City Hall will be built. How will we refer to the area? In addition, we
need to decide on the name of the road that it will be on. I emailed you a list of suggested names
for your consideration. Some suggestions were:
• Downtown Milton
• Downtown Historic Crabapple
• Downtown Milton at Crabapple
Mayor Lockwood
Obviously, Crabapple has been around for a long time and most people are familiar with it. I lived
in Crabapple long before the City of Milton was established.
Councilmember Thurman
We want people to understand that the area is Milton City Center but we don't want to lose the
historic Crabapple identity.
Mayor Lockwood
"Downtown Milton" would be a good compromise.
Steven Krokoff
Either Street, Drive, Boulevard, or Road would accompany the name. The street name suggestions
were:
• Cotton Gin
• John Milton
• Equestrian
• Piedmont
• Chicken Creek
• Veterans
• Patriots
Work Session of the Milton City Council
Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Page 15 of 15
Councilmember Kunz
I like the name Equestrian because our logo is a horse.
Councilmember Lusk
I like the name John Milton. We are referring to an historic area. Milton County was named after
John Milton and we adopted the name Milton based on his name too. I like the connection with
history. If we are going to promote the history of this area then that is a great way to pay tribute
to a Revolutionary War hero.
Councilmember Mohrig
I like the sound of John Milton Boulevard.
Agenda Item #4 was read.
4. Discussion Regarding TSPLOST Project List.
(Carter Lucas, Assistant City Manager)
Carter Lucas, Assistant City Manager
There has been a lot of discussion on TSPLOST regarding when, how, and if it will even move
forward this year. Staff has been asked to put together a list of projects to support some various
funding alternatives associated with TSPLOST. We would like to get your feedback tonight
regarding the list we have put together. With an overall distribution of a 1% sales tax there has
been distribution discussion of either a %2% of that or 3/4% of that. The revenues that would be
generated based on a population distribution would be:
• '/i of a penny we would receive approximately $24 million over a 5 year period
• 3/4 of a penny would generate a little over $36 million over a 5 year period
You want to make sure that you have enough money to fund the projects that are on the list. So,
the target that we have used as a staff is to hit 85% of the projected revenue. So, our target goals
under the '/Z% distribution would be a little over $20 million or a little over $30 million using the
3/4%. Unfortunately, our project list total is $70.6 million. There are ten intersections listed under
our current TSPLOST program. We have several bridge projects listed due to safety concerns.
We have also listed some trail projects that would connect schools, parks, and activity nodes. The
roadway projects consists of building new roads or widening existing roads. We have also
included some paving projects. Please let me know in the next few days or so where you see the
priorities on this list and if you have any additional requests that we may have overlooked.
Date Approved: April 11, 2016
Sudie AM Gordon, ty Clerk
Joe Lockwood, X49yor