HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - CC - 09/23/2019Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council j
Monday, September 23, 2019 at 6:00 pm
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This summary is provided as a convenience and service to the public, media, and staff. It
is not the intent to transcribe proceedings verbatim. Any reproduction of this summary
must include this notice. Public comments are noted and heard by Council, but not
quoted. This document includes limited presentation by Council and invited speakers in
summary form. This is an official record of the Milton City Council Meeting
proceedings. ficial Meetings are audio and video recorded.
The Regular Meeting of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton was held on
September 23, 2019 at 6:00 PM, Mayor Joe Lockwood presiding.
Mayor Lockwood: Good evening, everyone. Before we get started, I'd like to ask our
police chief, Rich Austin, to lead us in invocation.
INVOCATION
Rich Austin
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Joe Lockwood called the meeting to order.
Mayor Lockwood: And before we get started, I just wonder if we can lose the elevator
music. Thank you. All right. I'd like to call the regular meeting for
the Milton City Council for Monday, September 23, 2019 to order.
The city strongly recommends that you review tonight's agenda
carefully. If you wish to speak on an item on the agenda, please
bring your comment card to the city clerk, Stacey, as soon as
possible. While the Milton rules allow a speaker to turn in their
comment card up until the clerk calls the agenda item, once the
agenda item is called, no more comment cards can be accepted.
ROLL CALL
Councilmembers Present: Councilmember Jamison, Councilmember Kunz,
Councilmember Bentley, Councilmember Cookerly, Councilmember Longoria and
Councilmember Mohrig.
Stacey: This evening, we are honored to have the Sons of the American
Revolution lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Will everyone
please rise?
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (Led by Mayor Joe Lockwood)
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All: Pledge of Allegiance.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. That's always an honor to have the Sons of the
American Revolution here with us as well as tonight, we're
honored to have the Daughters of the American Revolution with
us. Again, welcome to tonight's meeting. We're glad you're here.
Council Member Cookerly?
Ms. Cookerly: Oh, yes. In addition to welcoming all of you, I have two special
visitors tonight, however, they're not here but they're watching it
on streaming, my nieces in Bethesda, Maryland, Mary and Jane
Hill. And I promised them I would say hello.
Mayor Lockwood: Again, welcome to everyone. Stacey, if you'll please, the next
item.
APPROVAL OF MEETING AGENDA (Add or remove items from the agenda)
(Agenda Item No. 19-202)
Stacey: The next item is approval of the meeting agenda, Agenda Item No.
19-202.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Do I have any changes or a motion on the agenda?
Mr. Mohrig: I make a motion, Mr. Mayor, that we accept the agenda as
presented.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Motion for approval, Council Member Mohrig seconded by
Council Member Kunz. All in favor please say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. Okay. The next item is public comment.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Mohrig moved to approve the agenda.
Councilmember Kunz seconded the motion. The motion passed (7-0).
PUBLIC COMMENT (General)
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 23, 2019 at 6:00 pm
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Stacey: There is one, sir.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. And general public comment is a time for citizens to share
information with the mayor and city council and to provide input
and opinions on any matter that is not scheduled for its own public
hearing during tonight's meeting. Each citizen who chooses to
participate in public comment must complete a comment card and
submit it to the city clerk to the agenda item being called, which
general public comment would be up front, not with an agenda
item. Please remember, this is not a time to engage the mayor or
members of city council in conversation. When your name is
called, please come forward and speak into the microphone stating
your name and address for the record.
You'll have five minutes for remarks. And the city encourages you
right not to review the agenda and if you wish to speak on a
specific item, bring your comment card to the clerk. So, if you
would please call the first speaker.
Stacey: The first speaker is Mr. Gary Jablonsky.
Mr. Jeblonsky: I've changed my mind. I plan to waive my public comment.
Mayor Lockwood: All right. Thank you, sir. Let's move on to the consent agenda.
Stacey, if you will please sound those items.
CONSENT AGENDA
Approval of the August 19, 2019 City Council Meeting Minutes.
(Agenda Item No. 19-203)
(Sudie Gordon, City Clerk)
2. Approval of the Financial Statements and Investment Report for the
Period Ending July 2019.
(Agenda Item No. 19-204)
(Bernadette Harvill, Finance Director)
3. Approval of the Financial Statements and Investment Report for the
Period Ending August 2019.
(Agenda Item No. 19-205)
(Bernadette Harvill, Finance Director)
4. Approval of a Professional Services Agreement between the City of Milton
and Universal Engineering Sciences, Inc. for Geotechnical Services:
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Construction Materials Testing/Special Inspections — SR9 Court/Police and
Fire Facility.
(Agenda Item No. 19-206)
(Parag Agrawal, Community Development Director)
5. Approval of a Professional Services Agreement between the City of Milton
and Taylor English Duma, LLP for Review and Assessment of Milton Code of
Ordinances Regarding Chapter 4 Alcoholic Beverages.
(Agenda Item No. 19-207)
(Sarah LaDart, Economic Development Manager)
6. Approval of a Professional Services Agreement between the City of Milton
and TizzyLiz Design, LLC for Graphic Design Services.
(Agenda Item No. 19-208)
(Shannon Ferguson, Communications Director)
7. Approval of an Agreement between the City of Milton LoJack Corporation for the
Milton Police Department to Participate in the LoJack® Stolen Vehicle
Recovery Network (SVRN).
(Agenda Item No. 19-209)
(Rich Austin, Police Chiefi
8. Approval of a Construction Services Agreement between the City of Milton
and Signature Tennis Courts, Inc. for Tennis Court Resurfacing Project.
(Agenda Item No. 19-210)
(Jim Cregge, Parks and Recreation Director)
9. Approval of a Task Order between the City of Milton and BM&K, P.C. to
Provide Pre -Construction and Right of Way Acquisition Services for
Cogburn Road Sidewalks.
(Agenda Item No. 19-211)
(Robert Drewry, Public Works Director)
10. Approval of a Contract Amendment between the City of Milton and
Safebuilt Georgia, LLC.
(Agenda Item No. 19-212)
(Parag Agrawal, Community Development Director)
11. Approval of Change Order #1 for Construction Services Agreement
Intersection Improvement Projects (Freemanville Road at Providence Road and
Webb Road at Morris Road Roundabouts).
(Agenda Item No. 19-213)
(Parag Agrawal, Community Development Director)
12. Approval of the Following Subdivision Plat and Revisions:
Name of Development / Location I Action I Comments / # lots I Total Den i
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(Agenda Item No. 19-214)
(Parag Agrawal, Community Development Director)
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Do I have motion for approval of the consent agenda?
Ms. Bentley: Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to approve the consent agenda as
read.
Ms. Cookerly: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have a motion for approval from Council Member Bentley
with a second from Council Member Cookerly. All in favor, please
say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. All right. Now, we'll move on to reports and
presentations. And Stacey, if you'll please read the first item.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Bentley moved to approve the Consent Agenda.
Councilmember Cookerly seconded the motion. The motion passed (7-0).
REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS
1. Proclamation Recognizing Constitution Week Presented to the Daughters of the
American Revolution - Martha Stewart Bulloch Society and Patriots of Liberty
Chapters and the Sons of the American Revolution — Piedmont Chapter.
(Presented by Mayor Joe Lockwood)
Stacey: The first item is proclamation recognizing Constitution Week
presented to the Daughters of the American Revolution, Martha
Stewart Bullock Society and Patriots of Liberty Chapters, and the
Sons of the American Revolution Piedmont Chapter. Mayor Joe
Lockwood.
Acres
1. Rockhill Farms
Combine & re -
LL 262
Minor
subdivide 3
8.861
0.225 Lots /acre
Plat
existing lots into 2
16200 & 16206 Henderson Rd.
Lots
(Agenda Item No. 19-214)
(Parag Agrawal, Community Development Director)
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Do I have motion for approval of the consent agenda?
Ms. Bentley: Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to approve the consent agenda as
read.
Ms. Cookerly: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have a motion for approval from Council Member Bentley
with a second from Council Member Cookerly. All in favor, please
say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. All right. Now, we'll move on to reports and
presentations. And Stacey, if you'll please read the first item.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Bentley moved to approve the Consent Agenda.
Councilmember Cookerly seconded the motion. The motion passed (7-0).
REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS
1. Proclamation Recognizing Constitution Week Presented to the Daughters of the
American Revolution - Martha Stewart Bulloch Society and Patriots of Liberty
Chapters and the Sons of the American Revolution — Piedmont Chapter.
(Presented by Mayor Joe Lockwood)
Stacey: The first item is proclamation recognizing Constitution Week
presented to the Daughters of the American Revolution, Martha
Stewart Bullock Society and Patriots of Liberty Chapters, and the
Sons of the American Revolution Piedmont Chapter. Mayor Joe
Lockwood.
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Mayor Lockwood: Okay. And as I said earlier, we're honored tonight to have
members of all of the chapters represented tonight. So, after I read
this proclamation, if you guys would join us to accept it, come
forward. So, I have a proclamation for Constitution Week 2019.
Whereas the constitution of the United States, the guardian of our
liberties, is a product of reflection and choice embodying the
principles of limited government in a republic dedicated to rule by
law, not by men. And whereas September 17, 2019 marks the
232"d anniversary of the drafting of the constitution of the United
States of America and the constitutional convention.
And whereas it is fitting and proper to accord official recognition
to this memorial anniversary and to the patriotic exercises that will
commemorate the occasion. And whereas Public Law 915
guarantees the issue ofa proclamation eachyear by the president
of the United States of America designating September 17 through
September 23 as Constitution Week. This, Constitution Week, we,
the city of Milton, urge all citizens to study the constitution and to
express gratitude for the privilege of American citizenship in our
republic functioning under the superb body of laws, the
constitution of the United States of America.
Now, therefore, we the mayor and the city council of the city of
Milton proclaim the week of September 17, 2019 through
September 23, 2019 as Constitution Week in the city of Milton and
ask our citizens to reaffirm the ideas the framers of the constitution
had in 1787. Presented the Martha Stewart Bulloch Chapter,
Patriots of Liberty Chapter of the Daughters of the American
Revolution and the Piedmont Chapter of the Sons of the American
Revolution, and this is given under our hand and the seal of the
city of Milton, Georgia on this 23rd day of September 2019.
So, if my council would join me down and ask those here to step
forward.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. If we can move on to our final presentation item. Stacey, if
you could please call that item.
1. Proclamation Recognizing Disabled Veterans DayTM - Founder, Greshun De
Bouse.
(Presented by Councilmember Matt Kunz)
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Stacey: Proclamation recognizing Disabled Veterans' Day, founder
Greshun De Bouse. Council Member Matt Kunz.
Mr. Kunz: Okay. A couple of weeks ago, I got a phone call from a lady
named Greshun De Bouse who I had never met before, but she had
asked about potentially doing a proclamation here for disabled
veterans. I thought it was very interesting as well because disabled
veterans are important in my own personal life. One of my
grandparents, my grandfather was actually severely injured in
World War II where he almost never left the hospital bed. He was
there for about a year. And he wound up recovering with only half
of his hip.
Upon recovering, he wound up going to school and getting his
teaching certificate and later became a principal at his school in
Cedar Rapids, Iowa and lived that way until he passed away at 82
years old. But it was very interesting having survived that. He
never lost his love for country. He was always cognizant of what
he had because he could barely get around, but he would do his
pushups. He was always tough to fight for his wife who had some
medical conditions as well. The spirit at which he faced that injury
was inspiring. And so, when Greshun De Bouse came to us, I
thought it would be very fitting for we and for all of our disabled
veterans but as well as my grandfather who is no longer here.
So, whereas Disabled Veterans' Day is a national awareness and
fundraising holiday celebrated annually on June 30 and designated
specifically for our disabled veteran heroes to ensure all of their
service -related disability needs are met. And whereas disabled
veterans are a unique population with a multitude of needs whose
condition affects not only them but also their families and whose
service to the United States in any branch and result injuries deem
them worthy of their own unique national holiday, which
celebrates their service, brings awareness to their disability
challenges and connects them to appropriate resources.
And whereas Disabled Veterans' Day was founded in May of 2019
by military granddaughter and cousin, disabled veteran advocate
and First Move Life Coaching, LLC owner, Greshun De Bouse,
because of her sincere desire to pay specific recognition to the
service of disabled veterans, raise awareness to other disability
needs, ensure connectivity with the appropriate resources, and
ensure their service related disability needs are met with
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timeliness.
And whereas it is imperative for all to both identify and to be
equipped with the pertinent knowledge of the unique challenges
faced by disabled veterans and their families, and to provide our
beloved disabled veteran heroes with a seamless, virtually hurdle
free process through which they obtain disability determinations
and relative services. And whereas Disabled Veterans' Day
founder Greshun De Bouse has streamlined the process for
disabled veterans across the United States to connect with her local
office of Veterans' Day Affairs by texting key word DVDAY to
31996.
Now, therefore, the mayor and city council'of the city of Milton
proclaim June 30 as Disabled Veterans' Day in the city of Milton,
Georgia given under our hand and seal of the Milton, Georgia ,on
this 23`d day of September 2019. And what I'd love to do is invite
Mrs. Greshun De Bouse to come up here along with anybody who
has family in the military or who also has served, and we'll give
you' a proclamation along with the council to come down and take
a picture. So, please.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. We'll move on to our first presentation tonight. Stacey, if
you'll please sound those items.
FIRST PRESENTATION
_1. Consideration of an Ordinance to Update the City of Milton's Chapter 56, Article
V - Regulations Related to Parking and for Related Purposes.
(Agenda Item No. 19-215)
(Rich Austin, Police Chief)
2. Consideration of an Ordinance of the City Milton to Revise and Update
Chapter 4, Section 4-235, (5)a.3 as it Relates to the Crimes Preventing the
Possession of a Pouring Permit.
(Agenda Item No. 19-216)
(Rich Austin, Police Chief)
Stacey: The first item is consideration of an ordinance to update the city of
Milton's Chapter 56, Article 5, regulations related to parking and
for related purposes. And this is Agenda Item No. 19-215. No. 2 is
consideration of an ordinance of the city of Milton to revise and
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update Chapter 4, Section 4-235 (5)a.3 as it relates to the crimes
preventing the possession of a pouring permit, Agenda Item No.
19-216.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Do I have a motion on the first presentation items?
Mr. Longoria: Mayor, I move that we accept the first presentation items as read.
Mr. Mohrig: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have motion for approval from Council Member Longoria
with a second from Council Member Mohrig. All in favor, please
say aye.
All: Aye.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Longoria moved to approve the First Presentation
Items. Councilmember Mohrig seconded the motion. The motion passed (7-0).
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. We'll move on to our first public hearing.
Stacey, if you'll please read that item.
PUBLIC HEARING
1. Consideration of an Ordinance of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton,
Georgia, to Adopt the Fiscal 2020 Budget for Each Fund of the City of Milton,
Georgia Appropriating the Amounts Shown In Each Budget as Expenditures,
Adopting the Several Items of Revenue Anticipations, Prohibiting Expenditures to
Exceed Appropriations, and Prohibiting Expenditures to Exceed Actual
Funding Available.
(Agenda Item No. 19-195)
(Discussed at the August 12, 2019 City Council Work Session)
(First Presentation at the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(First Public Hearing the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(Bernadette Harvill, Finance Director)
Stacey: It's consideration of a ordinance of the mayor and council of the
city of Milton, Georgia to adopt the fiscal 2020 budget for each
fund of the city of Milton, Georgia appropriating the amounts
shown in each budget as expenditures, adopting the several items
of revenue anticipations, prohibiting expenditures to exceed
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appropriations, and prohibiting expenditures to exceed actual
funding available, Agenda Item No. 19-195. This was discussed at
the August 12, 2019 City Council Work Session. The first
presentation was at the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting as
was the first public hearing. Ms. Bernadette Harvill.
Ms. Harvill: Good evening, Mayor and Council. As Stacey mentioned, we have
discussed this in depth before at two different meetings. So, I'm
going to hit the [audio interference]. If you have any additional
questions, please stop me. I'll be happy to address them. I'm going
to start with the consolidated financial summaries. Here, you can
see that citywide, we have a funding for $42.9 million. That
includes all funds of the city of Milton. They are balanced with
some use of fund balance within different .accounts. We will have
that discussion in one moment. Here, you can see that the citywide
revenues by source, property taxes, and sales and use taxes are
driving revenues citywide.
And public works and public safety are driving expenditure
departments citywide. Moving on to the general fund, our main
operating fund for the city of Milton. Here, we have the revenues.
You can see FY '17 and 'l 8's total activity and then, a comparison
of the amended budget for '19 and the proposed budget for 2020.
Total revenues for 2020 are $29.9 million with a 0.5 percent
increase overall. Here, you can see the revenues by source with
property taxes being the driving revenue provider for the city of
Milton at 50 percent followed by sales and use taxes at 32 percent.
Here, we have our expenditures by department and also our
operating [inaudible] [00:24:28] out.
As you can see in 2020, $31.6 million is our total expenditures
request. That is being balanced by a use of $1.6 million in excess
reserves. Those are reserves that we are legally allowed to use.
They are in addition and above and beyond what we need to have
by legal requirement of the 25 percent. That will leave us with a
fund balance going into FY '20 of $6.3 million. Here, we have a
listing of the maintenance and operating initiatives. We have gone
over them by department. This is a list for you summarizing all of
those requests. They are a total of $1.1 million.
We have our special revenue funds. Starting with the special
events fund, we are looking to have a slight decline in revenues for
that fund as we are not transferring any additional resources from
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the general fund into that fund this year. And then, expenditures
are expected to go up by 5.5 percent still leaving a fund balance of
$20,600.00. Here is the hotel/motel tax fund, which funds the
special events fund. Looking to have pretty much a steady no
change in that revenue or expenditure line item for FY '20. For the
confiscated assets fund, we no longer have a participant in the
HIDA Program so we're not expecting any revenues.
Any cases that are closed, we will receive those but when they
come in just as cases that are closed, we can't expect that to
happen within 2020. We are looking to utilize the remaining fund
balance of $6,716.00 across federal applicable purchases in the
Police Department leaving a $0.00 fund balance. For the E9-1-1
fund, we are looking to have a slight increase of 0.5 percent and
100 percent of those revenues collected go to the city of Alpharetta
for the city of Milton's portion of the E9-1-1 Center, which
remains a $0.00 fund balance in that fund. Next, we have our
capital projects funds.
Here are the capital projects funds summaries. You can see our
main capital projects fund will have an ending fund balance of
$2,700.00 at the end of FY 2020 if all dollars are expended. As you
know, this is a project length budget. So, this will have a rolling
expenditure that aren't spent until we can get to those project
completion dates. The green space bond fund currently includes
both the debt service as well as the spending for the bond on land
conservation. The fund balance you are seeing here is $142,604.00.
Those are excess taxes collected that will go towards future years'
debt service payments.
They will also be utilized to calculate the next year's millage rate
on the bond due. The T [inaudible) [00:27:02] fund is showing
$2.6 million in the fund balance after the collection of $6.5 million
and expense of $6.4 million in that fund. In our capital grant fund,
we've had some new grants come along. We're expecting to have
$805,000.00 in revenues in corresponding expenditures leaving a
$66.00 fund balance due to some interest that has been earned in
that fund. And then, in impact fees, we're looking to both receive
and spend $875,500.00. And then, last our revenue fund. It's
showing $0.00 in FY 2020 because we currently have those items
budgeted for FY '19.
So, once the bond issuance is completed that will roll into FY
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2020. As we've talked about in the past, we have the entire seven-
year capital improvement plan before you here. That includes all of
those funds that we just went over in the capital projects funds.
And that shows you every department how they're going to spend
the different revenue sources. And then, lastly, we kind of have
that recap of the pay as you go programming that shows each
project over the seven years and what general fund operating funds
would go out to fund those items. So, that is the basic summary of
our FY 2020 request.
Lastly, we have those capital initiatives, which are a total of
$768,000.00 and we're going to utilize $288,895.00 of impact fee
funds in order to purchase a new baseball field there.
Mayor Lockwood: Before we ask questions, I'm going to ask do we have any public
comment on this?
Stacey: We do not, sir.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. So, then I'll close the public hearing and I'll allow council
any questions on the budget. Laura?
Ms. Bentley: Bernadette, thank you very much. It's very thorough. I appreciate
that. How does our spending compare to other North Fulton cities
per capita? I'm just curious.
Ms. Harvill: So, we have taken a look at a couple of different things. And while
we are a different city than a lot of the other North Fulton cities,
we have looked at trying to find some similarities and per capita is
kind of a way we can tend to look at that. And currently, we are the
second lowest in the North Fulton cities for per capita spending.
Ms. Bentley: And of that spending, we get 15 percent. Is it about 15 percent of
the Fulton County tax bill?
Ms. Harvill: So, if you look at our residents and what they pay on their tax bills
across the city, the schools, and the county, 16 percent of those tax
dollars paid go towards city of Milton.
Ms. Bentley: Okay. And that's how we cover public works, community
development, green space maintenance, and all of those things?
Ms. Harvill: And our pay as you go programming.
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Ms. Bentley: Thank you. I just wanted to make sure I understood that.
Ms. Harvill: Certainly.
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Mayor Lockwood: That's a good point, too. A lot of people don't really — you look at
your tax bill. You get a big tax bill from Fulton County. You get
another tax bill from the city of Milton. But in all reality, when you
add the two together, only about 16 percent is going to the city.
And if you really look at the services the provided, the number of
services provided by the county and by the city, the city's list is a
whole lot longer. So, I think we're more efficient there.
Ms. Bentley: And I support the budget and I appreciate all of the hard work on
it. We've dug deep into it. Given our low density and our 13
percent commercial, I think we're running a very efficient ship. I
know this for sure because I know that our city manager is looking
at the port -o -potties around our city and making sure that we are
not providing too much luxury there. I got those phone calls when
we downgraded a couple of port -o -potties. So, anyway, I
appreciate the hard look that we've done in this budget process.
Thank you.
Ms. Harvill: Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you, Bernadette. All
right. If we can move to our zoning agenda. Stacey, if you'd please
read the zoning rules and sound the item. And, actually, Ken, I'm
going to ask a question. I think Council Member Bentley wants to
make an announcement. I don't know if you need to do it before
the rules or not.
Ken: Now, is perfectly appropriate.
Ms. Bentley: Okay. So, as in first presentation, I remain recused from this
zoning modification U18-07NC18-06 per Milton Ethics Code
Section 2-861B. The applicant was involved in my campaign both
financially and strategically. Therefore, to avoid any appearance of
impropriety, I remain recused from all official council decisions
pertaining to this special use permit.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Thank you. Stacey, if you would sound the item along with
the rules.
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ZONING AGENDA
1. Consideration of Zoning Modification Application #ZM19-01NC19-02 - 850
and 875 Hickory Flat Road (Matilda's under the Pines) by Old Crossroads
Properties, LLC (Curtis Mills) with existing zoning of AG -1 and
C-1 (U18-07NC18-06). To modify conditions:
2) To the owner's agreement to abide by the following:
a. Substantial compliance with the Site Plan received by the Community
Development Department on Mar -eh 29, 2 o June 25, 2019, and whereby
the exact layout of the project may contain minor deviations approved by
the Community Development Director provided the deviations remain
consistent with the purpose and intent of the Council's approval of the Use
Permit. Notwithstanding the contents of the site plan, the project must
meet or exceed the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance, all other
applicable city ordinances and these conditions. The site plan may be
revised with the approval of the Community Development Director in
order to comply with city codes and zoning conditions. Unless otherwise
noted herein, compliance with all conditions shall be in place prior to the
issuance of the first Certificate of Occupancy.
(The site plan change date reflects the proposed additional parking within
the 100 foot power easement, overflow parking along the east property
line, location of graded aggregate base reduced "assembly area ",
approximate location of septic system for restaurant, and proposed
permanent bathrooms.)
3) To the owner's agreement to the following use requirements:
a. Months, Days and hours of operation shall be limited to the following:
L Friday and/or Saturday within each week.
ii. Hours of operation shall be from 7:00 p.m. to 11:00,p.m.
iii. May 1st through October 31st with no more than 30 events to include two
events approved through a special event permit not to exceed 2-58 300
people in attendance which must include one off-duty police officer.
b. There shall be no more than 2-88 250 attendees at any given time for
each concert/performance.
4) To the owner's agreement to the following site development
considerations:
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d. The maximum noise permitted measured at all the adjacent property lines. the
following prepef4y lines YAere a r-esidenfial use is leeated; West 421.59 feet and
Nefth 201.7 shall not exceed 75 dBa continuous sound on Fridays or
Saturdays between
the hours of 7:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. (VC 18-06, Part 3)
(This request is to clarify the approved 75 dBa continuous sound at all adjacent
property lines at the June 18, 2018 public hearing and does not increase the
permitted sound levels for Matilda's)
and request a 4 -part concurrent variance for the following: 1) Sec. 64-212(6) — To
allow the fence adjacent to Hickory Flat Road to be located at the right-of-way; 2)
Sec. 64-1317(f) — To delete the landscape islands for the proposed parking lot
within the 100 -foot -wide transmission line; 3)Sec. 64-1346(b) — To increase the
rural section building maximum setback from 20 feet to 430 feet for the proposed
bathroom building; 4) Sec. 64-1323(c) — To allow the parking lot to be in one
large area for the proposed parking lot within the 100 -foot -wide transmission
line.
ORDINANCE NO. 19-09-405
(Agenda Item No. 19-196)
(First Presentation at the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(Parag Agrawal, Community Development Director)
Stacey: I'd be happy to. At the second regularly scheduled of the month,
the mayor and city council consider a zoning agenda. These items
include rezoning petitions, modifications of zoning, use permits,
and associated concurrent variances in addition to ordinances,
resolutions, and text amendments. I would like to acquaint you
with the rules and procedures for the zoning items. The applicant
and all of those speaking in support of an application will be
allowed a total of 10 minutes to present the petition. Those called
to speak will be taken in the order the speaker cards were received
by the City Clerk Department prior to the agenda item being
called.
If you are speaking on behalf of a group or organization, an
affidavit must accompany your public comment card. Before
beginning your comment, please identify yourself by name and
address. And before I start calling the item, I ask that you please
bring your comment cards up before I begin. Once I begin, we will
not be able to accept any comment cards. We have one zoning item
this evening. ZM 19-01 NC 19-02.
Mayor Lockwood: Stacey, I just want to remind everybody if you do have a public
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comment on this and would like to speak on this item and you have
not done so, go ahead and fill out a public comment card and give
it to Tammy. Go ahead.
Stacey: 850 and 875 Hickory Flat Road, Matilda's Under the Pines by Old
Crossroad Properties, LLC, (Curtis Mills) with existing zoning of
AG -1 and C-1. It is U 18-07NC 18-06. To modify conditions. 2) To
the owners agreement to abide by the following. A) Substantial
compliance with the site plan received by the Community
Development Department on we're replacing March 29, 2018 with
June 25, 2019, and whereby the exact layout of the project may
contain minor deviations approved by the Community
Development Director provided the deviations remain consistent
with the purpose and intent of the council's approval of the use
permit.
Notwithstanding the contents of the site plan, the project must
meet or exceed the requirements of the zoning ordinance, all other
applicable city ordinances and these conditions. The site plan may
be revised with the approval of the Community Development
Director in order to comply with city codes and zoning conditions.
Unless otherwise noted herein, compliance with all conditions
shall be in place prior to the issuance of the first Certificate of
Occupancy.
Please note, the site plan change date reflects the proposed
additional parking within the 100 -foot power easement, overflow
parking along the east property line, location of graded aggregate
based reduced assembly area, approximate location of septic
system for restaurant, and proposed permanent bathrooms. 3) To
the owner's agreement to the following use requirements. A)
Months, days, and hours of operation shall be limited to the
following. 1) Friday and/or Saturday within each week. 2) Hours
of operation shall be from 7:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.
3) May 1St through October 31St with no more than 30 events to
include 2 events approved through a special event permit not to
exceed we're replacing 250 with 300 people in attendance, which
must include 1 off duty police officer. B) There shall be no more
than we're replacing 200 with 250 attendees at any given time for
each concert/performance. 4) To the owner's agreement to the
following site development considerations.
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D) The maximum noise permitted measured at we're replacing the
following property lines where a residential use is located; West
421.59 feet and North 201.71 feet. We're replacing all of that with
all the adjacent property lines shall not exceed 75 dBa continuous
sound on Fridays or Saturdays between the hours of 7:00 p.m. and
11:00 p.m. This is VC 18-06 Part 3. Please note this request is to
clarify the approved 75 dBa continuous sound at all adjacent
property lines at the June 18, 2018 public hearing and does not
increase the permitted sound levels for Matilda's. And request a
four-part concurrent variance for the following.
1) Section 64-212(6) to allow the fence adjacent to Hickory Flat
Road to be located at the right of way. 2) Section 64-1317(f) to
delete the landscape islands for the proposed parking within the
100 -foot -wide transmission line. 3) Section 64-1346(b) to increase
the rural section building maximum setback from 20 feet to 430
feet for the proposed bathroom building. 4) Section 64-1323(c) to
allow the parking lot to be in one large area for the proposed
parking lot within the 100 -foot -wide transmission line, Agenda
Item No. 19-196. The first presentation was at the September 9,
2019 City Council Meeting, Mr. Parag Agrawal.
Mr. Agrawal: So, Stacey, you have already gone through around 20 of my 30
slides.
Stacey: You're welcome.
Mr. Agrawal: Thank you for that. Hi, I'm Parag Agrawal, City's Community
Development Director. And today, I'm here to -present you a
zoning modification request for the property located at 850-875
Hickory Flat Road, Application No. ZM19-01. Along with his
zoning modification request, we also have a four-part concurrent
variance. And the application number is VC19-02. Today, I also
have with me the city zoning manager, Robin McDonald. She is
the project manager and she is the primary author of the
department staff report.
I would also like to thank all of the Milton residents who are here
today and for being part of the process. Starting with the history
and the brief background, the Milton City council approved a
special use permit on June 18, 2018 for the outdoor music venue to
allow for the operations of Matilda's Under the Pines. Just to
summarize the approval process, the property owner can schedule
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30 events from May 1 to October 31. Each of these performances
can have no more than 200 attendees. Two of these thirty events
can be approved through a special event permit and cannot have
more than two hundred and fifty participants.
And each of these performances can take place Friday and/or
Saturday of each week from 7:00 p.m. until 11:00 p.m. The first
event took place on May 3, 2019 and the property owner has
utilized one special event permit for up to 250 attendees. Now,
looking at the modification request, which is in front of the city
council today, the applicant is requesting to revise the site plan that
was approved by the Milton City Council on June 18, 2018. And
they have submitted us a new site plan. Along with the new site
plan, the property owner is also interested in revising the three
conditions that were approved by the Milton City Council in 2018.
The first condition basically talks about increasing the number of
participants that can attend two events that are approved by the
special event permit from 250 to 300 participants. The second
condition talks about the number of participants that can attend
each of these performances. Again, the applicant would like to
increase the number of participants from 200 to 250. And the third
condition I will say is basically a clarification. So, last year, the
Milton City Council approved a condition saying that the
maximum noise permitted measured at the following property lines
where residential use is located west and north shall not exceed 75
decibel levels.
So, instead of simply limiting it to west and north, now the new
zoning condition will say the maximum noise permitted measured
at all adjacent property lines. So, we are not only measuring from
north and west. We are measuring at all property lines. Along with
these zoning modifications, the applicant is also requesting a four-
part concurrent variance. Variance No. 1, to allow the fence
adjacent to Hickory Flat Road to be located at the right of way. No.
2, to delete the landscape islands for the proposed parking lot
within the 100 -foot -wide transmission line.
No. 3, to increase the building setback from 220 feet to 430 feet for
the bathroom building. No. 4, to allow the parking lot to be in one
large area for the proposed parking lot with 100 -foot -wide
transmission line. Now, coming to the location of this property, we
all know where this property is located, it is at the intersection of
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Hickory Flat Road and Birmingham Highway. And the subject
property is shown by this read line on this map. Coming to the
zoning map, this property is a split zone between CUN and NGI.
The restaurant is on the CUN part of this property and the
proposed and best music venue is located at the AGI part of this
property.
The new site plan that has been submitted to our office has been
reviewed by our department. And these are the comments of the
city's transportation engineer. As the city's transportation engineer
comments the existing fence along the Hickory Flat Road is
obstructing the line of site. No. 2, the increasing number of
attendees from 200 to 250 and from 250 to 300 will not greatly
increase traffic impacts on the adjacent roads. The site plan has
also been reviewed by the city's plan review engineer. And as per
his review, the placement of gravel and GAB on the property will
increase run off from the property, which may impact downstream
properties.
Therefore, a line disturbance permit shall be required if the Milton
City Council approves the new site plan. Fire marshal's comments,
the handicap parking spaces for Seven Acres Restaurant cannot be
created to the amount of handicap parking spaces required for the
music venue. And the number of handicap parking spaces for the
music venue are not adequate. Our [inaudible] [00:44:05] review,
the site plan meets the required density standards. Therefore, no
tree canopy replacement will be required. Now, looking at the
Modification Request No. 1, as I initially said, the applicant has
submitted a new site plan and they would like to change the date of
the site plan submitted from March 29 to June 25, 2019.
This is the revised site plan submitted to our office on June 25,
2019. As you can see in the site plan, this is Hickory Flat
Road/Birmingham Highway. This is the restaurant building,
existing parking. This is the building assembly area for the music
venue. This is the bathroom facility. This is the septic tank area
along with the leach fields for the restaurant. And this is the
easement. This is the power line easement. And the applicant is
proposing to look at additional parking spaces underneath this
power line easement.
Now, if you analyze this new site plan that has been submitted to
our office starting with the parking, as per the Milton City Code
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for the restaurant, any spaces are required per 1,000 square foot.
So, that will give us 40 parking spaces are required for the
restaurant use. For the music venue, around 13 parking spaces are
required as per the Milton City Code. So, the total required parking
spaces as per the City Code are 53 parking spaces. Staff notes that
because for the successful operation of the Matilda's, 13 parking
spaces, which are required per the City Code are not enough. So,
they are requesting 300 participants, so 13 parking spaces will not
be adequate for 300 participants.
But if you look at the site plan, 156 parking spaces are provided.
And the staff considers these 156 parking spaces as required
parking spaces for the music venue and also for the restaurant.
Along with these 156 parking spaces, additional 17 parking spaces
are also located underneath this power line easement for future
expansion. So, if you look at 156 parking spaces, 40 parking
spaces are required for the restaurant use and additional 116
parking spaces are provided. And the staff is considering them as
required for the special use permit. So, based on this analysis, the
staff recommends approval of the new revised site plan that has
been submitted to our office.
So, instead of March 29, 2018, this will be the modification saying
June 25, 2019. So, now talking about the revisions of the zoning
conditions, as I mentioned, the applicant is proposing to increase
the number of participants for performances. So, the applicant
would like to increase the number of participants that can attend to
special event permits from 250 to 300 and for each occurrence
from 200 to 250. As I mentioned, a condition has been included
that basically says 156 parking spaces are required parking spaces
for Matilda's and also for the restaurant.
And as per the city's transportation engineer comments, an
increase of 50 attendees in each type of performance will not
negatively impact traffic, offsite parking, and safety issues. So, we
are covered with parking. There will not be any issues on traffic
and off-street parking. For the noise, to look at the noise issues, the
city engaged acoustic expert Valentine Walker and Smith and Mr.
Scott Smith is also here with us to look at the noise levels at
various performances. And the acoustic report is also part of your
packet as part of the department staff report.
And as you can see from the department staff report, the noise
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levels are well within the conditions set by the Milton City
Council. So, I will not talk a lot about the acoustic study. We do
have the expert with us. And the Milton City Council can ask any
questions from our Mr. Scott Smith later. Based on this analysis of
parking, traffic cones, and the noise levels, the staff recommends
approval of Zoning Modification No. 2 and that basically increases
the number of participants for the performances. And this last
zoning modification, as I mentioned, is basically a clarification.
So, initially, it says the maximum noise permitted measured at the
west and north property lines but now it will be saying measured at
all adjacent property lines. Therefore, staff recommends approval
of Zoning Modification No. 3. And this will be the language that
will be part of this zoning modification saying that at all adjacent
property lines shall not exceed 75 decibels continuous sound on
Fridays or Saturdays between the hours of 7:00 p.m. and 11:00
p.m. So, after the zoning modifications, let's talk about the
concurrent variances. The first request is to allow a fence adjacent
to Hickory Flat Road to be located at the right of way.
And as per the Milton fences and walls shall be set back a
minimum of 3 feet from the public right of way. So, the applicant
installed this forward fence in 2019 without securing proper city
permits. And as you know, once you are looking at the variances,
you have to go through this four-part test. The first criteria is relief,
if granted, would not offend the spirit or intent of the zoning
ordinance. No. 2 talks about unnecessary hardship due to size,
shape, or other extraordinary or exceptional situations. No. 3 talks
about public good and surrounding properties. And No. 4 talks
about public safety, health and welfare are secured.
So, if you basically look at this variance request from this four-part
test, the fence at its current location on the property line offends
the intent of the zoning ordinance because it is on the right of way.
There are no extraordinary and exceptional situations or conditions
pertaining to this site that causes an unnecessary hardship. The
location of this fence will cause substantial detriment to the public
good and surrounding properties because the location is on the
right of way. And the city's transportation engineer has also
reviewed this fence and the comments are the existing fence along
the Hickory Flat right of way is obstructing the line of site.
So, based on this analysis, the staff recommends denial of the
variance required for the fence under public right of way.
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Discussing the second variance to delete the landscape island
requirements for the proposed parking lot within 100 feet wide
transmission lines and as per the Milton City Code, landscape
islands in parking lots shall meet the standards in the zoning code,
provide 10 -foot parking islands every 6 parking spaces and 10 -foot
parking island at the end of every parking bay. Staff supports the
requested deletion of landscape islands because the surface is not
gravel.
It is GAB, which reduces the amount of heat having affect on the
parking lot. In addition, the permitted trees, if any, by the Georgia
Power do not meet the minimum requirements of shade trees in the
parking lot islands. Basically, it's an easement between Georgia
Power and the applicant. So, and the things that can go into this
Georgia Power easement is governed by that legal agreement.
Therefore, it is staff's recommendation that the deletion of this
parking island meets the spirit or intent of the zoning ordinance.
And the parking will also be used only for the limited basis from
May 1 to October 31 by allowing deletion of the parking island
based on the fact that this limited use of this parking lot and that it
is GAB and not gravel, the staff thinks public safety, health, and
welfare are not negatively impacted. Therefore, staff recommends
approval of conditions that talks about deletion of the parking
island from the proposed parking lot underneath the power line
easement. The third variance request is to increase the building
maximum setback from 20 feet to 430 feet for the proposed
bathroom building.
The applicant requests to allow proposed permanent bathroom is
located 430 feet from the front of the property. It is necessary
based on the necessity to have bathroom facilities located within
proximity of concert goers. This requirement was designed to
encourage a walkable village feel with newly, constructed buildings
close to the road. The location of the stage and the seating area,
which is further back on the site provide exceptional situation
because there is a need for bathroom building close to the music
venue.
Compliance with this requirement could cause detriment to the
public good and surrounding properties at the requested variance
makes the bathroom facilities more accessible. Public safety,
health, and welfare are not impacted, and substantial justice is
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done. Therefore, staff recommends approval of this variance
request. The last variance request is to allow parking lot to be in
one large area for the proposed parking lot within 100 -foot -wide
transmission line. The requirement for dividing parking lots in a
small area was designed to encourage a village like feel in
Birmingham Crossroads area.
The parking within the transmission line is not visible from the
primary roads and, therefore, does not offend the spirit or intent of
the zoning ordinance. It's staff's recommendation that extra
parking separation is not necessary since the parking area is not
visible from the Hickory Flat Road and, therefore, there is not an
exceptional situation. Public safety, health, and welfare are also not
negatively impacted and substantial justice is done with one large
parking lot. Therefore, staff recommends approval of this variance
request.
So, it's staff's recommendation to approve the new site plan along
with the three zoning conditions that have been presented to the
city council. In addition, the staff recommends denial of the
variance request to have a fence on the public right of way. And
the staffs recommendation is to approve conditional approval for
Parts 2, 3, and 4 of the variance request. So, with this, this is the
end of my presentation. I have Mr. Scott Smith with me who is the
acoustics expert and can answer any questions about the acoustic
study that was conducted on August 31.
Mayor Lockwood: If it's all right with council, I may go ahead and allow for public
comment first. That way, it may prompt any questions they may
have. Is council okay with that? Okay. Stacey, I assume we have
public comment on this item.
Stacey: The first public comment in favorite of the item is Joseph Alonso.
Mr. Alonso: Good evening. My name is Joseph Alonso. This is the first time
that I've spoken at something like this so this will be my first go
around. I'll keep it short.
Mayor Lockwood: Mr. Alonso, just for the record, do you mind — obviously, you
stated your name but just your address, too, just on the record.
Mr. Alonso: I'm happy to do it. My name is Joseph Alonso. I live at 13115
Morning Park Circle. That's in Milton, Georgia right around the
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corner here.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you.
Mr. Alonso: My wife and I have lived here for 13 years. We have three young
daughters. And as I was sitting here watching the presentation, I
was sort of reflecting on particular the standards are and what it is
you all are looking for because what I really wanted to say this
evening was that my family's experiences at Matilda's have been
absolutely fantastic. But I didn't really know how to articulate that
in a way that really fit with what I was seeing until I saw the
phrase village feel. I thought wait a minute, there it is. Village feel.
What's been really the pro and the con of living up here in Milton
is that I love it.
The people are great. The restaurants are great. The environment is
great. The con is the traffic. For me to do a lot of what the city of
Atlanta has to offer, I would have to come ,home on a Friday or
Saturday night, load my wife and kids in the car, and head into the
city. And I'll be honest with you. That is the last thing I want to do.
What's been great about Matilda's, frankly, is having the ability to
have that kind of a music venue right here locally. You can go.
You can hang out. You can bring food. You can meet up with your
friends and it's a whole heck of a lot better than the temptation to
spend your night sitting in front of a TV screen or tablet or what
have you.
So, I would just ask that the city council consider accommodating
the requests that have been made. I certainly think the Matilda's
contributes to that village feel that somebody so eloquently
described. So, thank you very much.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, call the next speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker is Tara Chambers.
Ms. Chambers: Hello. I'm Tara Chambers, 2784 Sonalee Way, Milton, Georgia. I
have lived here in Milton for about 17 years now and go back a
long way with the commercial development�in the area and all of
that. And I've been very against commercial development.
Matilda's is something I support tremendously because I think this
is exactly the type of commercial development we want in Milton.
Something that brings art, music, appreciation, community to us.
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Now, I understand there have been a lot of issues with the noise
complaints regarding the business. And what I want to mention
with that is living in the Highway 9 corridor where I do, yes, noise
is an issue when business comes.
And as Milton, we don't want that. But it's inevitable. So, let's
pick and choose our battles where this is the kind of noise that I
think we can all live with. And just being — we're dealing with a
business who wants to work with us. They're trying to find out
how to work with their neighbors and keep things down. Another
thing I wanted to talk about was just how I also think it's a great
business for our area because it's doing what we want it to do. It's
bringing people into that Birmingham Crossroads area and helping
the other businesses.
The other businesses are already there. We have an obligation to
help support them and keep them viable. Matilda's is a business
that brings people to that area. I went up there a few weeks ago not
thinking I was going to spend any extra money. I spent over
$100.00 just going to Publix, going to Subway getting sandwiches,
just doing the extra stuff. Then, all of a sudden, I looked and saw
Scottsdale Farm and realized, God, I haven't been there in years. I
went back the next day and went to Scottsdale Farm. So, to me,
that just seems like exactly the type of business we want bringing
to the area.
And getting back to the noise area, I want to say living in the
Highway 9 corridor, I live very close to Cambridge High School,
North Park, all of the schools there. And at the beginning when the
band was playing, the Friday night football, I thought I was going
to tear my hair out that this is insane. But now, it's become a part
of the community. It's who we are. It's where we live and we all
just have to tolerate each other. So, again, I just ask you all to help
support Matilda, help support our community with these types of
businesses, something unique and something different. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next.
Stacey: The next speaker is Christopher Hickman.
Mr, Hickman: Hi, good evening. My name is Christopher Hickman, 705 Scarlett
Oak Trail here in Milton. My wife and family and I moved to
Milton in January from Houston, Texas, first time Georgia
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residents, and fell in love immediately with the area and with the
community. We love the trees. We love the people. And we love
the charm. Somehow, Matilda has found a way to embrace all
three of those things. And it's early on, we had an onslaught of
visitors. And in the first few months here, we were making regular
trips down to Atlanta, going to downtown Alpharetta. And now,
when we have visitors come, we regularly only go to Matilda's.
And they found a way to embrace the charm. And we feel that it
represents our community and what we love about it. And it makes
us proud to bring visitors there. And what we love is that it keeps
us here in our community when we get to show friends and family
from Texas our new hometown. So, we ask that for your
consideration in additional support for Matilda's. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood:
Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey:
The next speaker is Scott Reese. Never mind. The next speaker is
Jeff Gribble.
Mr. Gribble:
Hello, everybody. My name is Jeff Gribble. I live at 15405
Birmingham Highway in Milton Georgia. And exactly what
everybody just said there, the last two people, I ditto to all of that.
This is such a beautiful community. We lived here, my wife and I,
for about 14 or 15 years. This venue, Matilda's and everything
that's happening down at the Crossroads is just adding super charm
and just super amazing vibe to the city here. And we just love it.
And I hope you will consider supporting and approving what
Matilda's and these guys want down there because it's a great
venue. And we love it. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood:
Thank you.
Stacey:
Mary Jane Potter, you didn't say that you wanted to speak. You
just wanted to show support.
Ms. Potter:
In case you had questions, I filled one of those out.
Stacey:
Okay. Mary Kay Gilbert.
Ms. Gilbert: Actually, I don't have anything new to say. I just want to say that I
am also in support of Matilda's.
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Mayor Lockwood: Ms. Gilbert, if you wouldn't mind stepping and at least state your
name and address and you can just say I agree or whatever.
Ms. Gilbert: We spend all of this time saying the same thing over and over.
Okay. I'm Mary Kay Gilbert at 970 Treyburn Run in Alpharetta,
Milton. But I felt compelled to speak tonight because there is
discussion about this venue being a problem. And like the people
before me, I feel like this venue actually is very much in character
with Milton. And it provides a music venue, which we don't really
have right now. My husband and I go to all kinds of concerts in
Roswell, Alpharetta, John's Creek, Atlanta, you name it. I've been
to City Springs. And we need something right here.
And Matilda's with the character they have, the older house, doing
the concert on the porch, the tables that are out there that you can
go to and reserve, it's just perfect for this community. It also gives
a venue where you can meet up with friends from the community.
You can have social time before the concert. So, it actually brings
the community closer together. And, again, as the others said, I
hope you will support the business.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you.
Stacey: The next speaker is Doug McCurry.
Mayor Lockwood: If I could just clarify, I wasn't asking Ms. Gilbert to speak other
than just address but appreciate any comments anyone has.
Mr. McCurry: Hello, I'm Doug McCurry. I live at 830 Hickory Flat Road, which
is the residential property just west of and adjacent to the property
that houses Seven Acre Restaurant and Matilda's Under the Pines
music venue. At a previous council meeting several months ago, I
stood here and voiced my support for the changes on that property
given the agreements on landscape buffers and boundaries that
owner Curtis Mills and I negotiated. At this meeting, I can
honestly say with regard to that that Curtis has more than fulfilled
his obligation in this regard and voluntarily opted to plant the
landscape strip with more costly yet esthetic plannings, including
azaleas, camellias, magnolias, and Japanese maples.
Being a garden enthusiast myself, I definitely feel these plannings
as they mature will offer a much more pleasing effect than a row of
Leland cypris. Eventually, I think the community will also
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appreciate the difference. Additionally, at the previous meeting, I
voiced my support for Matilda's primarily based on my meetings
with owners/operators Mark and Mary Jane Potter and the
resulting positive feelings I received from them. They were
gracious and appeared very interested in doing whatever was
required of them to make Matilda's a welcoming part of the
Birmingham business and social scene.
They assured me they were willing to do whatever they could to
bring a quality product to town while balancing the concerns or
issues that might arise. I was convinced then: as now that this venue
was a unique, organic type endeavor` that would serve the
Birmingham community and yes, also the surrounding area just as
the Publix, the Shell Station, the restaurant, and the banks do. I
stand here tonight as the closest residential neighbor and I am still
solidly in support of Matilda's and its mission of providing quality
music in a unique social setting.
From my observations, the Potters and Curtis Mills have done
everything possible to ,adhere to the established guidelines while
endeavoring to blend the venue into the Birmingham community. I
know initially at the last meeting, there were concerns about the
decibel levels and that the council and the principals arrived at a
level of 75 decibels of continuous sound. I know this issue is
foremost on the Potters' and Curtis's agenda because at each
concert, they all take multiple —
Stacey: Excuse me sir.
Mr. McCurry: -- sound readings at various points on the property to ensure
compliance. Where individuals concerns have been raised, they
have worked to mitigate or resolve them. For my perspective, as
their neighbor, the 75 -decibel level is very appropriate and is
working fine.
Mayor Lockwood: Excuse me. We're going to have to adjust the time. Are we over
total on the time or individually?
Stacey:
Unknown Speaker:
Correct, sir.
You've hit 10 minutes.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. All right. Typically, we'll allot 10 minutes for opposition
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and for those in favor. If it's up to the council, I'll be glad to add I
don't know how many more comments do we have?
Stacey: We have three more comments.
Mayor Lockwood: Add another six minutes. Is council okay with that? And then,
we'll also add that on the other side, too. So, do we need to make a
motion on that?
Mr. Longoria: Motion that we add another six minutes to discussion for both
sides.
Ms. Cookerly: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have a motion and a second to add six minutes to either
side. So, all in favor, please say aye.
All: Aye. Thank you, sir.
Mr. McCurry: But the 75 -decibel level seems to be working very fine. And to my
unprofessional ear, this level allows for the varied styles and
genres of music to be played and enjoyed as intended and not
artificially altered or unduly constrained. While my wife and I
have attended most of the concerts, of the two to three we missed,
once inside our house, we cannot hear the music. Last week, we
missed the concert but were home and could barely hear that
musician from our outdoor porch. So, again, I think the council
made a good call on the 75 -decibel level and I will continue to
support it.
I also recall that parking and traffic were concerns that were shared
by several people. Since we can simply walk through our garden to
reach the venue, parking is not an issue to us. But it does seem the
current parking off of Hickory Flat Road coupled with the
overflow from the transmission right of way seems to adequately
serve the venue and the restaurant. I personally have not witnessed
any congestion problems before and after an event, but I assume
the Milton Police could document any problems. While I recognize
that we accept Matilda's as a welcome addition to the Birmingham
business, social, entertainment community, there are others who
may feel it is out of character for preserving a rural Milton.
They certainly are welcome to their opinion, but I personally feel
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
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0011
that an endeavor that allows neighbors to congregate, meet, talk,
sing, some even dance, and generally enjoy a non -athletic social
event is a most desirable addition to an emerging community. I
have lived here for 39 years in a house my grandparents. And trust
me, I have seen the sea of changes in Birmingham and the
surrounding area. The area has certainly grown and evolved. And
overall the community and now the city have done a good job of
influencing the positive changes.
As a witness to the years past, I view Matilda's Under the Pines as
another of those positive changes. I look forward to their ongoing
success and appreciate your support of the venue. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you, sir. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker, I'm going to go ahead and apologize if I
slaughter your last name, Marie Ragionti.
Ms. Ragionti: Hi. And I might add you did a great job.
Stacey: Thank you.
Ms. Ragionti: I have lived here only two years. However, I have been visiting —
Mayor Lockwood: Excuse me, ma'am. I'm just going to break in. If you don't mind
name and address just for the record.
Ms. Ragionti: I'm sorry. My name is Marie Ragionti and I live at 645 Hickory
Flat Road in Milton, which, of course, is pretty darn close to
Matilda's. And I have been coming here frequently for about 25
years. I've lived different places all up and down the east coast.
I've moved a lot. I've traveled a lot. And I feel like Matilda's
Under the Pines is such an asset. And I have to say that when I first
found out that we were going to have a music venue, I was
horrified. I was aghast. I thought I won't -be able to sleep nights
and so forth. Well, as it turns out, there has never been an issue
with noise of any kind.
And the only reason I can't sleep nights is if I can't go. If I can't
go, I'm really disappointed that I didn't make it. But most of the
time, I make it. I feel like it's a real asset to this community as it
would be to any community. It's family oriented. I've made many
friends there. I do believe that it contributes to the health and
i
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31
economic wellbeing of the community. And the music is just right
on. I can't say enough good things about it. And I do thank you for
your support. Thanks.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you'd please call the next speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker is Donte Ragionti.
Mr. Ragionti: I'm Donte Ragionti. I live at 625 Hickory Flat Road, which is
exactly four -tenths of a mile from Matilda's. That was my mama
and I'd just like to ask how many places do you all know of that
you can take your mom, your wife, and your kids to and everybody
have a good time because that's how I feel about Matilda's. It was
a stocking stuffier to everybody in my family from my wife. My
kids don't live at home. I've lived in the area since 1992. My kids
don't live here anymore but they make the trip up to go to
Matilda's. It's that kind of place. I bank on the corner. My
insurance agent is on the corner.
I buy groceries on the corner. I buy gas on the corner. I eat on the
corner. I work out at Milton Athletic Club on the corner. I go to
AA on the corner. And you know what? I go to concerts on the
corner. And the only negative thing about any of that that I've got
to say is when are you going to make it not a corner and a
roundabout. But other than that, I'm in support. That's it. Thank
you, Mayor. Thank you, Council.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay, Stacey, how many more do you have?
Stacey: We have one more and then, I've got one to read into the record.
And we have 55 seconds next.
Mayor Lockwood: If you want to call the next one and then, you can read that after
that.
Stacey: Kathleen Moore.
Mayor Lockwood: And who was that?
Stacey: Kathleen Moore.
Ms. Moore: Hi. I'm Kathleen Moore. I live at 15290 White Columns Drive in
Milton. And I just wanted to voice my support for the Milton
venue, the Matilda's venue. Thank you.
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Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Point of order, Ken.
Ken: Yeah. I've got a real quick point of order. So, we have the
requirement that all cards should be submitted when the agenda
item is being read. That is no exception this evening. While that
announcement was ongoing, you made a further call for
individuals to go ahead and get their cards in. We have one
gentleman that was in the process of doing that and, in fact, had
secured the cardand was filling it out before the agenda item was
called but literally came in and handed it in and the agenda item
had finished. Mr. Mayor, based upon this is more of my call, I
think it's appropriate to let this individual speak this evening.
I think he was in progress and based upon the dual announcements
we were making, I think that's appropriate. So, it's a Mr. Solden.
He does have a card. And I would, at this point, recommend he be
allowed to come speak.
Mayor Lockwood: And, again, I certainly can support that. I'm of the opinion if
someone takes the time to come to a meeting, no matter what their
position is on something, to give them an opportunity. So, if the
council is okay with that, as you said, he was already filling out the
card before the item was called, is the council okay with that? Do
we need to make a motion on that?
Ken: You don't. And I'm sort of making that elementary call but I do
think he needs to go ahead and come on up and make his
comments.
Mayor Lockwood: Hold on one second. Another point of order. Stacey said she's got
one to read in the record. Obviously, we've only got a few seconds
left. The comment that's read into the record, but the speaker is not
here, does that need to be within the time allotted for each side?
Ken: It does. And so, if that goes over, we'll need to give the opposite
side —
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Just to be realistic, we probably ought to consider adding
three minutes for —
Ken: I think that's probably more than what is going to be necessary.
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Mayor Lockwood: Is council all right with that?
Unknown Speaker: So, 15 total each side?
Mayor Lockwood: Yes. So, do I have a motion?
Mr. Kunz: I'll make a motion that we add three more minutes to each side.
Mr. Jamison: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. A motion was seconded to add three more minutes to allow
an additional nine minutes plus the ten to each side. All in favor,
please say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. Thank you, Ken. And if you'll call the next
speaker.
Ken: I believe it's Mr. Solden. Thank you.
Mr. Solden: Thank you. Hello, my name is Bill Solden. I live at 325 Hermitage
Trail, Milton, Georgia. And I was just reflecting back on our
earlier meetings about Matilda's. It was a very hot topic. And just
some points I want to make. There was concern about traffic and
parking. And from my experience, it's been a non -issue. As far as
the noise levels, I watch Mark walk around with his phone all night
long checking those decibel levels. So, they're making a very
vigilant effort to stay within those decibel limits. As far as
drunkenness and disorderly conduct, which was raised, I have
never witnessed this.
As far as community, I was able to tell my neighbors about my
Matilda's. Many of them have come. They enjoy it and they have
come multiple times. Plus, I made new friends from Milton that are
now enjoying this wonderful music venue. As far as I'm buying
food from Seven Acres, I'm going to Publix at times where I
wouldn't normally go to these places. So, again, they're bringing
revenue into the area. And as far as police activity, I've seen the
police there a dozen times walking the property line. I don't know
if people are calling up and making false reports about noise levels.
I think it's a waste of policemen's time where they could be better
serving the community with other issues.
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But anyway, I fully support Matilda's. Anyway, I fully support
Matilda's and I hope they become a growing part of our
community. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you have one more comment to read to the
record.
Stacey: Does that count in public comment? Okay. This is for Robin
Fricton who is in the audience. And he lives at 2970 Francis Road.
He said, "I support the zoning modifications for Matilda's. My
wife and I have enjoyed the music at Matilda's since it has moved
to Milton. We hope the council will allow Matilda's to continue."
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Thank you. If you'd please call the next public comment.
Stacey: This is in opposition.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay.
Stacey: The first one is Kevin Crow.
Mr. Crow: Good evening. Kevin Crow, 1153 Breen Drive, Milton, Georgia.
I'm speaking on behalf of the Breenridge Subdivision
Homeowners" Association. We believe this is the first and only
time our subdivision has spoken or requested anything from the
Milton City Council. The Breenridge Subdivision Homeowners'
Association requests that the Milton City Council consider the
feedback from our residents about the sound levels emanating from
Matilda's music venue. Specifically, we request the city council
modify the special use permit under consideration to a lower
decibel limit where it minimizes the impact on our neighborhood
and surrounding community.
The feedback from our neighborhood is the current special use
permit approved decibel level of 75 decibels is too loud and a
modification to a level more conducive to a residential area be
approved. We, therefore, request that the Milton City Council
modify the decibel levels to a level where the sound is not
disruptive to the quiet enjoyment of our homes. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker is Debbie Beacham.
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Ms. Beacham: Good evening. My name is Debbie Beacham and I live at 500
Hickory Mill Lane, which is one-half mile west of Matilda's. I'm
here tonight to present my opinion regarding the property variance
request. I would also like to state up front that I am not anti-
Matilda's. As you are aware, there are noise issues, sound level
issues that are real that have not been addressed. I am asking you
to deny this request until the sound level issues have been
mitigated. I am trying to understand the bigger picture here. Last
June, Mrs. Potter stood before you and said, "I don't want usually
300 people. It's just a bigger headache.
I'm happy with 150. Two hundred is a nice number. Anything
from 200 to 300, I just as soon it not go there." That's quoted from
Page 116 of the June 18 minutes. So, I'm trying to understand what
happened between last summer and the first two months of season
one to request an increase in attendance and an increase in parking.
Are we setting the framework here for something that's much,
much bigger than Matilda's that's currently at the Crossroads? We
all know that Matilda's is in compliance with the approved special
use permit.
However, when you have people who have lived at the Crossroads
and as far as a mile away from the Crossroads who can hear this
music in their homes, who can sing along to lyrics of songs like
Purple Rain then, there is a problem with the sound level that has
been approved for this music venue. According to Page 161 of the
minutes, the applicant stated, "When a review period was being
discussed, and if there's a problem, we're going to fix it or we're
going to leave. And it's not going to take us three years." He went
on record several times to say he wanted to be a good neighbor and
if there are problems, we're going to fix it.
Concerts have been held since May and both the applicant and
proprietor know that there are issues with the sound levels. Both
have stated they want to work with the community but what have
they done? Their words do not match their actions. There has been
one incident of doxing on the Matilda's Facebook page. That's not
being a good neighbor. There was an attempt to intimidate me in a
meeting. That's not being a good neighbor. There is currently a
save Matilda's campaign underway. Calling complainants
naysayers is cruel, inappropriate, and insensitive. That is not being
a good neighbor.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
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36
Name calling, intimidation, doxing, and creating false campaigns
accomplishes nothing. This adult bullying creates more work for
community leaders, and it puts our community at odds with one
another. People only want the peace and quiet in their homes that
they had before Matilda's. The peace and quiet that you and the
applicant assured everyone that they would not lose. Last summer,
my neighbor, Kevin Davis, stood before you. And he said,
"Matilda's coming to Milton is a big thing." And he asked you to
take the time and get it right. To get it right the first time.
Well, I submit to you that you didn't take the time because here we
are talking about Matilda's again. It appears that one of the biggest
kinks left with Matilda's is the sound level and the noise issues.
Staff asking the community to work with Mrs. Potter directly is
flawed. There is no official instruction to do so and there will be no
official record indicating that there is a sound level or a noise
issue. Where is the accountability? It is with the law. I respect the
law because the law was written to protect the people.
I take our local government seriously and I stand behind our
processes. I stand here tonight asking for your help to resolve this
problem. This problem that's real, this problem that's not
fabricated. I ask you to hold the applicant accountable for the
promises he made last June that he would get it right or leave. I
honestly know of no one who wants to see Matilda's leave. I know
of no one who has asked Matilda's to leave. The only thing I know
is the applicant said he would get it right or he would leave. Last
June, decisions were made in the wee hours of the morning. I do
not know if every councilmember had a clear understanding ' of
what was approved or not.
Mistakes were made, lessons to be learned. Concert season is
almost over. I think there may be six concerts remaining. The
review is in November. If this noise issue is not fixed now in
Season 1, we're all going to be back here next year and we're all
going to be going over this again. I ask you to take the time
tonight. Do the right thing tonight. I ask you to start holding
applicants accountable for promises they make when they come
before you seeking approval. And if we're not doing that, I ask you
to start tonight with his applicant, Mr. Mills. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you'll please call the next speaker.
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Stacey: The next speaker, I'm actually going to ask Mr. Kevin Crow to
come back up if you wanted to speak on behalf of yourself.
Unknown Speaker: Mr. Mayor, our rules anticipate that an individual can speak as a
representative of an entity, which I believe was his first comment
and then, in his individual capacity, which is a separate capacity.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay.
Mr. Crow: Hello, again. Kevin Crow, 1153 Breen Drive, Milton, Georgia,
about half a mile away from the subject property. Our concerns
stemmed early on as Matilda's began to operate and our daughters
having to sleep in the basement before their soccer finals the next
day because the music was keeping them awake at night in their
bedrooms. We never thought we'd have that type of experience
here in rural Milton. I'm aware that the city has had a sound report
conducted and the report stated the venue is in compliance with the
sound levels defined in the permit. We've been aware of this. And
that's part of the problem, which is we feel the current approval
levels are just too high.
So, what should we do instead of just complain? What we tried to
do is find a workable solution for everyone involved. So, what we
went out and did is purchased the exact same make and model
decibel readers the city off Milton uses in their police force. We
called the manufacturer technical support and discussed
appropriate settings for the best reading, calibrated it to the city of
Milton equipment, used less than one decibel difference. We took
sample readings at concerts when I was available. I wasn't
available for all of them. We worked with various neighbors north,
south, east, and west to determine the noise impacts at all of the
different decibel levels.
And that way, we thought we could provide tangible and actual
feedback to both the operator and the city council instead of just
saying it's too loud. And I believe this is the only approach that
took readings over a four-month period and included various
neighbors for feedback. And the feedback — the issue we received
was it's not when the concerts they have near the 60 -decibel range.
That's not the problem. The problem is when the ranges get up to
the 75 decibel levels. That's when the negative feedback occurs.
So, what we found is 60 -decibel continuous and 65 decibel peak at
the property line is the sweet spot.
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The operator has had concerts in this range in the past and they
appear to be successful and enjoyable to the Matilda's patrons.
And at the same time, it minimizes the impact to the surrounding
community. The feedback I gathered, I even shared it with the
operator for her to try to tweak the noise levels. What we're asking
for is reasonable, achievable, and based on four months' of
readings. To fit in this area, which is more residential than their
prior location, they should be willing to make some changes. The
concern is not just the levels and the operator now but what
happens next because there will be a next.
And maybe it won't be Matilda's. Changing the approved noise
level provides safeguards for the surrounding residents now and in
the future. And this will not solve 100 percent of the noise
complaints what I'm suggesting. I'm fully aware. But we believe
it's a step in the right direction and should alleviate most of the
concerns for the local Milton residents and help the operator at the
same time. So, all we're asking is we believe the 60 -decibel
constant and 65 decibel peak at the property line can help achieve
that. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey?
Stacey: The next speaker is Kathleen Whitley.
Ms. Whitley: Hi. My name is Kathleen Whitley. I live at 1250 Birmingham
Road right down the street from the venue. And my comments will
be very brief. First of all, I just wanted to ask rhetorically. how
many of the city council members actually live close enough to
experience the music on Friday or Saturday night. And then, the
last thing that I want to say is that my husband and I live six -tenths
of a mile from the music venue. We can be out on our deck at night
and we can hear it. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker is Judy Birds.
Ms. Birds: Judy Birds, 1165 Breen Drive, one-half mile from the music
venue. Good evening, council. I have attended and spoken at all of
the city council meetings and planning commission meetings on
this matter. Tonight, I am not asking you to shut the venue down. I
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39
am asking you to please empathize with the nearby residents. You
might recall that over 40 of those residents expressed concerns at
the city council meeting where the use permit had nine concurrent
variances were approved last year. Those nearby residents left
dispirited. They felt they had not been listened to.
The most important quality of life issue for nearby residents now is
the loudness of the music. Residents advised council that the
decibel levels approved in that very long night would almost
certainly mean that we would hear the music at our homes. We
were quite surprised when we heard the music in our homes, inside
our homes, inside our bedrooms. Please take a moment to consider
that and whether you would want to hear music in your home. The
fix for this is easy. It's free. Reduce the sound limit at the line
around the property to 60 decibels continuous and 65 decibels
peak.
Mr. Crow has talked about the work he has done and the feedback
he has gotten from the neighbors to see that this was a reasonable
level. These levels have been achieved for several concerts
resulting in a seemingly pleasurable experience for the audience
without intrusion into our homes. Lowering the sound limit is an
important first step. I also believe other changes are needed to
make this venue perfect as the operators have asserted is their goal.
We are here tonight because city staff required the property owner
to seek several variances for noncompliance with our Code of
Ordinances.
I urge you to require compliance with the zoning rules of the
Birmingham overlay moving the fence and parking from the right
of way, adding the required screening in front of the parked cars,
and installing pedestrian paths. If you also deem fit, restore the
requirement for trees and islands in the parking south of the AGI
located stage. Also consider that there are similar requests soon to
become before council that will likely intrude on the quality of life
of many other Milton citizens. The precedent set here will
reverberate across our wonderful community.
I understand and accept that a majority of council is committed to a
music venue at the Crossroads. However, I also know that most of
you are committed to making this venue acceptable to nearby
residents. Please understand and work hard to assuage our
concerns tonight. I believe a reasonable solution is possible.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
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Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you would please read the next.
Stacey: The next speaker is Trish Stafford.
40
Ms. Stafford: Hello. I'm Trish Stafford and we live at 1450 Birmingham Road.
It's one mile west of the venue. I also want to reiterate that we're
not here trying to shut anybody down. And we're not waging a war
against Matilda's, but we do want to live in our peaceful
community in peace. We have an 11 -year-old daughter. We can
hear the music in our home. And our second story upstairs is where
our bedrooms are. And on Fridays, mostly Saturday nights that we
do notice it, it does keep us up and it keeps my daughter up. And
we really want a solution to this.
Yes, we do want to have engaging, fun things to do around our
community but we want them to bring us together as a community,
not divide us. Not have one section of residents who are close
enough to be constantly bothered by the ' noise versus the people
who live quite a distance away who like to come in and bring their
own alcohol and listen to music. And that's fine. But adding more
people to this venue, bringing in more cars, more parking, more
noise and then, having those people leave at 11:00 at night and it
does disrupt our daily course of life.
It disrupts our living. And the reason we came to the community to
find some peace and quiet and to find a neighborhood that does
look out for each other. And that's all we're asking is that they
keep in mind that there are people that do not utilize their services
the same way. And if we aren't there on Saturday night listening to
music, it's because we're at home not wanting to listen to a
concert. It is in my backyard and I do hear it. And, frankly,
increasing the number of patrons, it scares me a little because it
doesn't seem to me that they're scaling back upon hearing that
there are complaints from the neighborhood.
It seems to me like they want more. So, that is pretty much all I
have to say. And I appreciate you all listening to us tonight.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next
speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker is Cam Crow.
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Ms. Crow: Good evening, council I'm Cam Crow, 1153 Breen Drive, Milton.
I'm here tonight really to just speak as a Milton mom. I have two
teenage girls. And yes, I am one of the people that has made a
formal noise complaint because my child was not able to sleep in
her own bedroom at night due to the impact of the noise. As my
husband spoke to earlier, we have one child who is an athlete and
has to sometimes get to bed early, even on the weekends when
most teenagers like to stay up late at night. She's very committed
to her sports and has to often get up at 5:30 or 6:00 in the morning
to travel for her athletics.
And I do want to be clear. I also have a child who plays for the
Milton High School band. We are avid supporters of music and the
arts in this community. So, we have no aversion to Matilda's as a
venue. Our concern is with the level of noise. As you heard from
my husband, he has certainly done a lot of due diligence to really
find a workable solution that we as a neighborhood in consult with
our other neighbors who feel the impact of this noise feel would be
an acceptable level. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey: Joe Whitley.
Mr. Whitley: Good evening, Council and Mayor. My name is Joe Whitley. I live
at 1250 Birmingham Road. It's a pleasure to be before you again. I
don't expect to be back again. I hope we can find some
compromise. My managing partner at my law firm was Howard
Baker. Senator Baker believed that compromise was the soul of
government. In these times, nobody compromises anymore. We
always have to win out. So, the best football is played between the
40 -yard lines for both sides. That's where we need to look at this
this evening, I suggest. I also believe that Curtis Mills and the
owners of the Matilda's operation are trying to do the best they
possibly can.
However, the consequences of this has impacted our
neighborhood, our family. My wife previously presented her
position. I join her in that. We're six -tenths of a mile away.
Regardless of how much mechanical equipment you may be using
and looking at and hearing from about this, you've heard from real
human beings here tonight about how this has impacted us and our
communities. It's important that the numbers, I believe, stay where
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42
1
they are because I think those are appropriate numbers for a venue
as small of this. The 200 and 250 numbers are quite sufficient in
my mind for the venue.
Also, I would submit that as to the fencing, the staff has got it
right. I believe keeping the fence back away from the right of way
is a good idea. As to landscaping inside of the property, those are
practical matters. When I drive by, I don't see any of that. And as a
citizen of this community, I would love for there to be more trees
and more vegetation. Anything to make our streams and water in
our community safer, clearer, purer is important to all of us. And I
think we need to think about that. So, I leave that to the council.
And that's my opinion on those two issues.
I also submit that Curtis Mills has worked very closely with me as
a neighboring business owner and has kept his word in helping us
keep additional parking out of our parking area during these events
by putting up signage when these events occur. So, I compliment
him in that regard. As I listened to this debate a year ago, I was in
Florida. And I was online listening to the presentations. And I
thought the council at that time suggested they were going to
revisit the concept of Matilda's in six months. And as far as I know
that has not happened.
And I'm not suggesting that anything untoward has happened, but
I wonder if from a legal perspective, if the council tonight should
be considering whether or not Matilda's as an institution should
continue to exist in our community as a practical matter. Thank
you very much.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, how are we doing on time?
Stacey: We have eight seconds left, sir.
Mayor Lockwood: How many cards do we have? -
Stacey: We have six or seven cards left.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. We may probably need a minimum of 10 minutes for that if
that would even cover it. Let's try for 10 minutes if council is okay
with that. Now, point of order, Ken. Since we gave that to both
sides, so the other side would not actually have a —
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Ken: The way that works is those who wanted to speak in favor,
everyone got an opportunity. And all the council is doing is simply
giving the same opportunity. So, we don't then have to open it up
for the other side to be able to come up then.
Mayor Lockwood: And, again, my position is I feel like those that did come here and
spend their time and evening because probably not everybody
enjoys it as much as we do coming here every Monday night. But I
do always want to allow somebody an opportunity to speak. But if
we can keep the time as tight as possible just for everybody's sake,
but I would be glad to suggest at least 10 minutes we'll add and see
how we go on that. Is council okay with 10? I'll open it up.
Someone will make a motion for that.
Mr. Mohrig: Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion that we add an additional 10
minutes of time to the clock for opposition to speak.
Mayor Lockwood: Can I have a second?
Ms. Cookerly: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: I have a motion and a second to add additional 10 minutes on this
side to speak to hear those. All in favor, please say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: It's unanimous. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey: Eric Reed.
Mr. Reed: Eric Reed, 1129 Breen Drive, 0.4 miles from the establishment.
I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a politician. I'm not a public speaker.
What I am is a homeowner real and near. A couple of things that
were mentioned throughout this deal were village and community
and all of the other things that make Milton great, horse farms,
serenity, quietness. Matilda's does none of those. If you're sitting
in your backyard on a Saturday night and I'm blasting my music,
you don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear their music unless I
pay to go see it. There doesn't need to be more parking. That's just
going to be more congestion around our already problematic
corner.
By putting up leafage and everything else, we're going into the fall
seasons, that's not going to help when everything goes dead, and
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the leaves fall off. It's still going to be loud, still going to be loud
in my backyard, still going to be loud in my house. I hope that you
guys think about what you're going to pass and don't pass the
extensions. Thanks.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, please call the next speaker.
Stacey:
Chrissy Reed.
Ms. Reed: Good evening. My name is Christina Reed. I reside at 1129 Breen
Drive half a mile from the establishment. Let me start with I am
not against Matilda's. I am here just discussing the noise. As a
current resident of Milton, I'm requesting you enforce better sound
regulations at Matilda's. The noise levels have far surpassed what
was originally expected. And we're able to hear music in our own
yard. Having originally, moved from Texas, our family chose to
live in Milton for the beautiful scenery, the quaint environment,
and the quiet lifestyle. All of these things are evident here with the
exception of the noise level on Saturday nights.
I realize that growth and development are a normal part of life.
However, a lower noise level should be enforced for the good of
all of our neighbors. I am aware that this music venue is now legal
and allowed to function and doing well. However, I do not
appreciate sound that is generated each weekend. If we wanted to
hear outdoor concerts from our home, we would have moved near
Chastain Park. The fact that we're able to hear music within our
own neighborhood is becoming a nuisance each weekend.
Matilda's should be required to consistently maintain decibel
levels of 60 to 65 for their events.
Lowering the noise level would definitely make a difference to our
neighbors and we want this to be a positive experience. I urge you
to listen to these concerned citizens and enforce regulations
requiring Matilda's to function at lower decibel levels. The rural
area of Milton is one of the most idyllic places to live and I would
like it to stay that way. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker is Connie Beardsley.
Ms. Beardsley: Good evening. My name is Connie Beardsley. I reside at 1051
Breen Drive. We moved here six years ago for the pasture lands
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and the peace and quiet. Spending time outside is what we love to
do with our family and friends. Since Matilda's has started with the
concerts, we have really changed what we do on the weekends
with our friends. We all have outdoor patios without outdoor
kitchens, with firepits that we would all watch football outside
together. And it has turned into we go other places now. The noise
levels that we have taken at my house, which I'm the closest one,
one night was 81.1 peak.
At constant, it was 78.4. I can tell you for a fact that I can hear
every single concert from the lowest levels of a base sound to
others that I can hear the precise song and the precise words played
at each concert from my back patio. What's going to happen, Mr.
Reed mentioned, when the leaves come off? When the leaves come
off of the trees, how loud is it going to get? The traffic is an issue.
For all of the residents that moved out to Milton and drive, several
of them are residents in our neighborhood, drive from downtown
Buckhead.
And if you spend any time between 4:00 and 6:30 or 7:00 at that
four-way, you will be backed up past Freemanville. And in the
mornings, it's bad with the schools. But adding another 150 cars
on top of what they've already done at that four-way stop with
people from Canton passing through, it's just going to make it
worse. If it's a quiet venue, this is a question that I had for you
guys, if it's a quiet venue, why is there amplifiers?
If it's a small, quiet back porch with tables, why would we need
amplifiers? I also would like to ask the board members would you
want this in your backyard when you're having dinner parties?
And we were watching the Georgia game, which I'm sure a lot of
you guys were watching on Saturday against Notre Dame. We had
to turn up our TV outside so loud to hear it over the music on
Saturday night, to hear a football game. It's turned into a problem.
Also, several of the neighbors, we have called the police to make
complaints. But several of our neighbors didn't want to call the
police because we feel like the police have better things to do than
to write complaints all of the time.
Some of the dispatchers have told us oh, yeah, we know about it.
We're not sending anybody out. Yeah, we already had to. And
then, we find out that you guys were actually making notes of how
many people were calling but they didn't even have records for all
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the ones that we have called. So, I'm not sure what to say. I think
the decibel at 60 to 65 might be a solution to the problem. Keeping
it low numbers, having police in the area to direct traffic, things
like that might make things a little better. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey, if you would please call the next speaker.
Stacey: Jeff Beardsley.
Mr. Beardsley: Hi. I'm Jeff Beardsley. I live at 1051 Breen Drive: My wife,
Connie, is a better complainer than me so she hit most of the
highlights. But the main thing, I think, from a lot of what people
have said tonight is it's not an issue of whether there should be
Matilda's or not. It's that it's affecting the ,residents that are in the
area that don't necessarily want to hear music on Saturday night.
You want to enjoy your porch or watch a game outside and you
can hear the songs clearly. We can hear it in and out of the house.
And some people have said like the kids, it's the same thing.
When kids start complaining about it, they're like hey, I can hear it
in my room the sound of bass. What is that? They can hear it in the
house and it's on Saturday nights and it's until 10:00. So, I think
that's the main issue is the level. They need to be checking the
sound levels at the residences in the area where we're at and seeing
how loud it actually is. Thank you, guys, for -your time.
Mayor Lockwood: Stacey, if you'll call the next speaker.
Stacey: The next speaker is Tom Roblesky.
Mr. Roblesky: Good evening. Tom Roblesky, 1142 Breen Drive. Thanks so much
for listening to us today. Again, the bottom line, as my neighbors
have been saying in Breenridge is really the noise on both Friday
and Saturday night is really the issue. I thank our neighbor, Ed, for
kind of checking the levels if you will. But I hear this music inside
of my house with a football game on thumping over the football
game. I hear it on Fridays and Saturdays. I shouldn't hear that.
When I get out on the back deck, it's loud as day. I don't know
[inaudible] [01:54:00] but I heard all of the words to Purple Rain.
I know the song really well.
I shouldn't hear that. If I'm doing that with me or my kids, I'm
going to have the police called rightfully so if I'm doing that.
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Something has to be really done with the music. That's what we're
asking for, again, not to shut them down if you will. What's key to
understand, too, is that we hear the cheering that's coming from
the ends of these sets as well. It's not just the music. And if you
want to add more people to this now, it's just going to get louder
with cheering if you're not putting any containers at that. That's a
concern as well. So, I don't think we should have this
incrementalizing, if you will, the size of the venue.
That's really concerning to us being a half mile away. Again, that
really is that noise level. If we wanted to hear this kind of music
set up like somebody already said, I would have chosen to buy a
house near Verizon Amphitheater or down in Chastain. We didn't.
So, if we can have some constraints to this and keep it under those
levels regardless of what the numbers are, bottom line is we
shouldn't be inconvenienced like that from the quality of life and
also property value perspective. If we ever want to sell our homes
and we get asked this, we have to declare that if somebody asks
that.
So, I appreciate you taking the time and listening to us. Thanks.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Okay, Stacey.
Stacey: Eileen Roblesky.
Ms. Roblesky: Good evening. I'm Eileen Roblesky, 1142 Breen Drive about a
half a mile away from the venue. First of all, I just want to say
Matilda's sounds precious. It really does. It sounds like they really
want to just work with the village atmosphere. The whole reason
we all came to Milton and that was 13 years ago was how the rural,
beautiful feeling we got from it so cozy and respectful of nature
really. And I also would really like for you to know that we are
strong supporters of the arts. In particular, music. I myself
performed musically and all three of our grown children did. So,
for about 20 years, we've been going to and from concerts that
they've performed in.
They all played instruments. They all sang both in professional
children's choirs and orchestra. Right now, our daughter plays the
harp in an orchestra. We are strong supporters of music of every
type. Well, with me, it's country western not so much. So, I just
really want you to know that. There are a few items that my
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neighbors talked about and others that things like the number of
people coming to the venues increasing, which is going to increase
traffic and everything else. And I know a lot having to do with
landscaping. The thing with that is that we can opt out of having to
be involved with the traffic around there or something.
What we can't opt out of is the sound. Guys, it's an issue. My
husband mentioned us being able to hear every single word to
Purple Rain. Cool song, love it. We don't need to hear that from
our home. It's our refuge.
Stacey: I'm sorry. I'm so sorry to interrupt. We are out of time.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. We're going to need to address the time. Hold on one
second. How many speakers do we have left?
Stacey: We have one speaker left and I have four to read into the record.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I was going to say a final five minutes of the council is okay
with that. I'll open up for motion. Sorry about that. We'll add some
more time.
Mr. Kunz: I make a motion to add five more minutes to the time.
Mr. Jamison: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have a motion and a second to add five minutes. All in
favor.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. Okay. Continue.
Ms. Roblesky: Okay, just briefly. More specifics on the sound, guys. In our home,
we can hear this loudly. On one of the nights, we were trying to get
to sleep. It was maybe 10:00 p.m. We had two noise makers on, a
Dyson fan, and a ceiling fan and could still hear the music and feel
the thumping of the base. Another time, we mentioned Prince
songs we could hear every single word to. I should not be able to
tell that the singer of the group has a high voice or a low voice. I
shouldn't be able to hear crowds cheering. I shouldn't be able to
hear this stuff. I can't opt out of any of this. It's thrust upon me in
my home.
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And, frankly, it's stressful. We've called the police multiple times.
I feel silly having them to come out to address this but it really
disturbs the quality of our life. And I'd really very much appreciate
if that sound can really be addressed no more than 60 decibels
perhaps or whatever is deemed reasonable. But where it is right
now is not within a reasonable level for those of us in our homes in
Breenridge. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Stacey?
Stacey: Ted Cox.
Mr. Cox: Ted Cox, 13860 Bethany Oaks Point. Mr. Mayor,
Councilmembers, I'm not going to get into the story of the noise
because I think these people have made it more eloquent than I
ever could. But I will remind you that the 75 -decibel standard was
the same standard that was used at the Green House at Montana's.
I've always said that that's the wrong standard to be using for a
music facility or a special event facility adjacent to residential
community, especially when they moved in after the fact.
The second point I was going to say is with respect to attendance is
that one of the city councilmembers, when the facility behind my
home tried to increase the attendance, the comment was why are
we back discussing this again. This was a settled matter. Why are
we doing this again? And I think that same logic should be used
tonight. Thank you very much.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Okay. Stacey?
Stacey: Okay. We had one lady who had to leave due to a medical
condition. But she wanted it to be known that she is in opposition.
Her name is Betty Loggins and she lives at 15915 Birmingham
Highway. Greg Beacham at 500 Hickory Mill Lane, Milton, has
submitted an affidavit regarding his inability to physically attend
tonight's meeting. His comment is precedence, willingness, co-
existence. With the outdoor music venue at Crossroads currently
known as Matilda's, I am very concerned about what has been
approved to date, not only specific to it but, more importantly,
about any future music venue applications that may come to
Milton.
I am very concerned about the property zoning request to grow the
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existing outdoor music venue at the Crossroads before Season 1 is
over and sound level noise issues have been mitigated. Before
approving any new requests from this applicant, I ask that you get
this music venue right as it sets the precedent for any and all such
future applications. There has to be meaningful willingness on the
applicant and music venue to be good neighbors. I have not seen
any indication that there is. So, it's up to you, our city leadership,
to make this music venue a proper fit for the community. I urge
you to begin doing so tonight.
There is a balance that has to be made so that this outdoor music
venue and any future outdoor music venues can peacefully co -exist
within the surrounding community. If it doesn't start with this one
then, you are going to continue to place an undue burden on city
staff when other music venues make application to be part of
Milton. I ask you to make this work for everyone. Please do not
rush this like you did last June. Consider all of the comments and
work out a solution that is the right solution for all of Milton.
Sheila D'Amico at 1075 Breen Ridge, Milton, Georgia has
submitted an affidavit regarding her inability to physically attend
tonight's meeting.
My name is Sheila D'Amico and I live in Breenridge subdivision
on Birmingham Highway just north of Birmingham Road. My
address is 1075, which is lot No. 3 or the third house on the right
as you enter Breenridge. Our deck and backyard face Birmingham
Highway. On the nights that Matilda's has concerts, I can hear the
music inside of my home, even with all of the doors and windows
closed. Obviously, if we want to sit outside in our backyard, the
music is even louder and interferes with our enjoyment of our deck
and backyard.
I absolutely love music but while at my home, I only want to hear
the music that I choose to play and at a time of my own choosing. I
am not against concerts at Matilda's but the loudness level of the
music must be reduced so as not to bother nearby homeowners
who simply want to enjoy their homes and yards. Thank you for
your consideration. Barbara Sommerel at 1350 Nicks Road has
submitted an affidavit regarding her inability to physically attend
tonight's meeting. I am a resident of Nicks Road, Milton, and at
times, I can hear the music. My home is about a mile away. I
would like the council to lower the noise sound limits.
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Terry and Rhonda White, 1130 Breenridge Drive, Milton, Georgia,
have submitted an affidavit regarding their inability to physically
attend tonight's meeting. Dear Milton City Council, we would like
to express our growing concern about Matilda's focusing on two
topics, noise levels and quality of life. In 2012, we were looking
for a quiet place to live. One of the main reasons we moved to this
area was due to its lack of noise. Day or night, we can sit on our
back deck and listen to the sounds of nature, birds, crickets, frogs,
and an occasional horse. It was very peaceful. And I'm out of time.
Do you want me to continue?
Mayor Lockwood: I know we've all got record of that.
Ken: Correct.
Mayor Lockwood: I believe all of the council had that. So, would that —
Ken: It's in the record, Mr. Mayor. I'm comfortable with it. Okay. Is
council okay with that? Again, I don't mind adding —
Mr. Kunz: How much time do you think it will take you to finish it?
Stacey: One minute.
Mr. Kunz: I make a motion that we add one more minute.
Mr. Longoria: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: I'm okay with that. All in favor, say aye.
All: Aye. Any opposed? All right. One more minute.
Stacey: Now, on certain Friday and Saturday evenings when we go outside
of our home, we can clearly hear Matilda's. Many times, it's so
loud we can understand the words spoken by the MC and the lyrics
in the songs. It's like having an unwanted concert in your
backyard. During certain concerts, the music was so loud that the
music could even be heard inside of our house. Not only does our
quality of life suffer on concert nights, we are very concerned
about our property value decreasing due to its noise. When it
comes time to sell our house.
Our fear is people like us who are looking for a quiet and peaceful
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place to live will not look in our neighborhood because they have
heard about the noise problem Matilda's has introduced and they
will look elsewhere. The detriment caused by Matilda's could cost
homeowners in this area tens of thousands of dollars per
household. Change must be made to the current arrangement. Our
quality of life at home suffers when Matilda's hosts a loud concert.
Current noise level limits must be lowered, not increased in order
for Matilda's to peacefully co -exist with its neighbors. Thank you
for time and consideration, sincerely Terry and Rhonda White.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. That is all of our public comment, correct?
Stacey: Correct.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. So, I'm going to close the public hearing. And I do —
Ken: Mr. Mayor, very quickly. Just one moment.
Mayor Lockwood: I want to make a statement while they're talking, too. Sometimes,
people will complain that I allow public comment to go on too
long but, again, it's my belief that if you guys — if somebody
makes the effort to come to our meeting, I would hate to not allow
them to at least give their opinion. So, thank you for bearing with
all no matter what your position is for or against. I appreciate
everyone's public comment.
Ken: So, Mr. Mayor, this is some additional information. It appears to
be, I think, from an opponent. At this point, the time is up. And
everything has been read so I think we did what we thought we
were doing when this individual came up. So, I'm just going to put
this in the record. It will be in the record.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. All right. So, we'll close the public hearing now and open
up for questions. And what I would like to do is Mr. Smith is here
and I appreciate the fact that he's been here for a couple of hours.
So, if council has any questions, I want to at least make that
proposal.
Mr. Smith: I'm Scott Smith. I'm the principal [inaudible] [02:06:22] at
Valentine Walker Smith. Do I need to say my address?
Mayor Lockwood: No. In fact, at this point, I'm just going to ask council if they had
any questions just out of respect for you being here so long. If they
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had any questions for you, I wanted to give them the opportunity to
ask that.
Mr. Smith: Although I'm running out of gas here, I think that you did a good
thing to let everybody talk.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Does anybody have any questions for Mr. Smith?
Mr. Mohrig: I got one.
Mayor Lockwood: Go ahead.
Mr. Mohrig: So, Mr. Smith, I was trying to read your report and I am not an
engineer by any stretch of the imagination. Can you just clarify
that last paragraph where it talks about the factor if it's increased
by a level of four? And can you just kind of maybe go over the last
paragraph? Because I think I understood the first paragraph. Do
you know what the last paragraph is?
Mr. Smith: I have an idea of what you're talking about. I don't want to get too
scientific. The sound level meter is a compressed scale. Our ears
don't hear similar to the way sound pressure increases or decreases
when you put energy into it. So, when you're looking at just raw
pressure from physics standpoint, if you were to double the
acoustic pressure, you might get 6 DB. If you were to quadruple,
you might get 12 DB and so and so on. Now, the ear is not linear
and that's one of the reasons we use the A weighted scale for most
studies. It deemphasizes — since the hearing canal is so small, we
experience base and low frequencies with our bones.
And the ear, actually, is more sensitive to mid and high
frequencies. And I'm saying this so you'll just have a better
understanding. So, a 10 DB increase on a meter would be really
where you would think it was subjectively doubled. And 20 DB
would be where you would think it was quadrupled when, in fact,
the actually acoustic pressure could be many magnitudes much
more increased than our ears would fool you into believing. I don't
know if that explains anything to you.
Mr. Mohrig: Kind of. It kind of did.
Mr. Smith: But what I was trying to say in that paragraph is on the night that I
was there when a full band was playing, the levels at the property
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line were between the 60 and 65. And they had some wiggle room.
So, what I was saying is that if you were to take that average and
extrapolate it out to 75, you could pretty much quadruple the sound
pressure and still be below the use permit.
Mr. Mohrig: Okay. So, that kind of goes to my next question. So, L4 is Breen
Road. And so, when you said it was 60 to 65 that night and you
measured at 48. So, let's say if it was 75, what would that decibel
number be?
Mr. Smith: Well, it's not going to be exactly linear because there are other
factors. But if we assume that it's only a half mile propagation so
it's relatively linear then, you could expect a corresponding
increase that would probably be equivalent to just adding the
decibels to that give or take a few DB.
Mr. Mohrig: Okay.
Mayor Lockwood: I have a question. Obviously, to clarify for everybody in the room,
and a lot of it is perspective and we're going to her different levels.
I know at my house, I hear the high school and the band and all.
And sometimes, it sounds louder than others. We're talking about
the requirements of the 75 decibel is at the property lines of this
particular property. So, obviously, at residential areas and those
that have spoken, it may be a different decibel level. It's,
obviously, not 75 there. But can you give us some ideas just in a
simplistic way?
For example, what does 60 decibels — is there something
corresponding that you can say a 60 -decibel sound I like a 70
decibel, a 50 -decibel sound, something like that?
Mr. Smith: Well, you're asking kind of a loaded question. Music is a little bit
different. But if you were just to equate overall magnitude, us
having a conversation out in the parking lot at 6 feet might be 65
DB continuous level. And 75 to 80 could be a moderate vacuum
cleaner at a set distance. And 80 or 85 could be a cement mixer or
really loud truck. It's really a compressed scale. So, 40 would be
what I would consider 35 to 40 a really remote, rural area. And 30
DB would be a whisper. So, 30 to 65 is a whisper to conversational
speech if you were just to look at things that we hear and
experience every day.
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Mayor Lockwood: Okay. That makes sense. Anybody else? Okay. We sincerely
appreciate you being here tonight so thank you very much.
Mr. Smith: Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: I'll open up any other questions for staff from council or
discussion? Joe?
Mr. Longoria: Yeah. So, the way I look at this is we've got a couple of different
pieces of discussion that we need to have. And some of it breaks
down into things that are going to impact the current review period
that's underway and those things that we'd need to ensure are
correct from a documentation point of view. So, we may be out of
sync with some of the things that we said. I know the language that
was related to your motion that you made, Peyton, last year on this
we might not have captured exactly correct. And then, we've got a
third group of things that are requests from the current applicant
regarding changes.
I have some concerns about changing anything that is related or
that could impact the review that we've got scheduled because if
we change the variables in an equation, you're going to get
different results. And so, if our goal is to provide a six-month
review, which I think it always has been regardless of what the
review could actually do or the outcome could come from the view
itself, changing anything midway through is going to create some
confusion on what we're actually reviewing. So, in some cases,
people will say was the music too loud. Well, no, it wasn't. Well,
are you saying it wasn't before we change something or after we
change something?
And not that I even considered changing decibels as part of this
group of things that could be changed but my point is, we don't
want to change stuff if we don't have to before the review. And I
think that the attendance is one of the things that could impact
what kind of a review we have. Certainly, the decibel level is
something that if we changed, it's going to impact on the review
itself. And so, the review needs to, I think, be as true to whatever
this time period is that it's in. And I think the review is set to come
before us at a November work session, is that correct, Steven?
Mr. Jamison: I've got a question on that. So, what is the review and what legal
ramifications can we even have at a review?
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Mr. Longoria: That's a good question, Mr. Peyton.
Ken: Well, remember a little bit the framework within which this
started. If you may recall, the permit actually was for it was a
three-year permit. And I think we talked about that in June of 2018
the notion that this was a little bit of a round peg in a square hole
because the perception, or at least my position on that particularly
was that permit was not aimed at a permitted improvement on land.
This council in June of 2018 took a zoning decision, made a
zoning decision, issued a special use permit, which I believe runs
with the land, and had that three year I would almost maybe liken
it to a sunsetting provision that it could, in effect, go away.
The council varied that. They removed that three-year review. And
I believe the narrative from June of 2018 was notwithstanding us
removing that three year permit sunset, we wanted an opportunity
after this business had been in business, operational, not getting
started but actually having concerts to have a process where the
council with the assistance of staff and perhaps experts or technical
folks, if needed, could come and give information and that may, in
fact, serve as a catalyst for working with the owner to make the site
better. That was my takeaway from it. I don't think you were
initiating a zoning action by this review.
I think it was an opportunity for data and feedback from your staff,
from the community if needed, of course, and to just become
educated. That's part of what you were doing and that's what I
thought that was. If you're asking what you can do, right now
you're in a process. This process this evening is an actual zoning
process. It's an amendment to the special use permit with
accompanying variances. So, you have a lot of options with you
this evening more than you're going to have in November.
Mayor Lockwood: And that's what I would ask to clarify. Is it correct to say that,
obviously, you explained the review, which we could assess the
information and hopefully work with that with the citizens on
Issues of complaints but at this point, since it is a zoning issue, is
really where we would have more opportunity to make an actual
decision?
Ken: Right. Candidly, the six-month review, we sit here and listened to
quite a bit of feedback and information based upon I'm not sure
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I'm going to say it's an entire season but at least but at least a good
percentage of a season of this in operation. So, I don't know the
information you're going to receive in November may be markedly
different but it may be. It could be.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Anybody else? Matt?
Mr. Kunz: Yeah. I agree with what Councilmember Longoria said mostly and
the fact that we have a review that I think was at least my intent
when I voted for Peyton's motion in June of last year. I do think
the request is somewhat premature because of that notwithstanding
of the fact that I think they've got a successful venue and they're
excited. That's what you want from an entrepreneurial perspective.
I think the council's intent to have a music venue up there was in
the right direction from an overall perspective. However, that
being the case, we did though have the review from an intent so
that we could make requests for modifications if they made sense.
Talking to a lot of the residents that are out here and we heard from
many of them tonight both for and against, you're not hearing
people saying shut it down from that perspective. I think for the
most part, people tend to agree with the intent of a community
activity up there that's non -industrial, non-commercial, but it's
something that's more of a family style atmosphere, which is good.
The issue though, as we're talking about the number of attendees,
we've heard a few people mention that but not many. We've heard
the fence, the landscaped islands, the bathroom building, those
aren't really the issues. It's the noise that's the issue.
And from that perspective, from where staff is, what I'm hearing
from my residents is not so much that the noise is constant but
about 50 percent of the time is when there is an issue. At least
that's what I've heard from them. And I have not gone to a venue
just to hear it from that perspective. I'm just talking to residents.
But it's interesting. To be the only councilmen on that far north
end and maybe you've had the same experience but it's like on
certain nights, I don't hear anything and on other nights, everybody
texts me on that issue.
So, it's like whatever reason of what they're doing, I don't know if
it's scheduling or however, there are some nights that are okay and
there are other nights where it's like what did we do. And so, I
think that that inconsistency or that expectation of constancy is
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what's causing some of the issues here. So, I really appreciate staff
being an acoustic guy here to measure that. I don't know though if
it was in the 50 percent that he measured that was good or the 50
percent that he measured that was bad on that end. And so, I think
having review is extremely important.
But, obviously, being as the only modification if we can — I'm
open to making some negotiation on these issues if we can
negotiate noise. And if we can't do that, I don't know how I can
pass it.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Peyton?
Mr. Jamison: You can go, Rick.
Mr. Mohrig: No, go ahead.
Mr. Jamison: So, we keep on going back to this review. And so, my question is
if nothing is done tonight, the noise level stays in place, nothing
changes. And this review is not a legally binding review, correct?
So, my assumption is now is the time where we need to kind of
work something out or do, we have the power in the future to make
the conditions different?
Ken: That was a compound question and I'm going to take a shot at all
of it. 1) Is the review a legally binding review? It is a legal review.
There is nothing inappropriate about it at all. Do I think it is a
zoning process? I do not. So, this is. The review will not be. I think
I agree with Councilmember Kunz though. I think you probably
actually characterized it a little better than I did. It is an
opportunity to see if further scrutiny is required. And if, in fact, it
triggered a review — that's not correct. If it triggered us starting a
process, we could do that as well in November.
So, to your point, Councilmember Jamison, if the six-month
review received feedback, not unlike this evening, and as a result
of that feedback you believe the city on its own volition should
tmilaterally change some of those conditions, I think you would
have that authority. However, that authority is attenuated
somewhat by constitutional considerations as well. We do have the
ability to change requirements with respect to ongoing concerns,
but it is a narrow power because there is a law of vesting.
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There is a law that says that if an entity, a business, changes its
position based upon governmental approvals, it's difficult for us to
then make the conditions so extreme that we de facto put that
entity out of business. So, we need to be mindful of those
considerations as well. So, going back to both of your points, if, in
fact, there is room for compromise with all sides moving in the
same direction and working together for a common objective, I
will tell you that's probably better than not.
Mayor Lockwood: Rick, you had something?
Mr. Mohrig: Yeah. I guess I've got a number of questions. The first one has to
do with we've got a number of different components of this zoning
ordinance. Can we vote and consider each one independently so
we're approving and making motions on each one? Or do we have
to do, from a legal standpoint, do we have to list all of them and
then, approve, change, modify? Can we individually go through
these and vote on each one?
Ken: Councilman Mohrig, that's almost a parliamentary question. And
yes, the answer is if you wanted to break them into subparts and
vote on them individually, you could do that. But I will only
caution that there may be councilmembers that don't want to do
that because they want to see what the package is. So, again,
legally could they? Yes, sir, they could.
Mr. Mohrig: Because when I read through all of these, there are a lot of
different things in here. Some of them are housekeeping. Some of
them have to do with true zoning saying this is where the applicant
is not in compliance like the fence and other things. So, we got
kind of a mix of things. I take citizen input, especially people that
live close by very seriously. I live over on Highway 9. We
experienced when we had the Montana's Grill, I went to people's
houses. I saw the impact to them when they had their little children
and they heard and felt the thing.
So, sound is a tricky thing. Sound is, as we said, it's not linear
because I've heard some people say that shouldn't be a problem
but yet, we have people coming here and telling us from a lifestyle
standpoint that this is impacting me. It is a problem to me. How do
you judge that? Well, I think we've heard a lot of people say this is
a concern when I hear this outside. So, I guess my question goes
back from another question is back to the six-month review. Let's
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say we pass a number of things. We didn't change sound level. We
didn't change the number of attendees.
What would be the process if we did that six-month review and we
wanted to then say, you know what, we've got more data, I think
it's time that we actually now change or make some changes, work
with the venue to say we want to see these things changed as a
council?
Ken: Right. So, governments always have the right to be the applicant in
zoning. In fact, it's sort of a modern phenomenon that it's all
property owner and developer driven for most of the history of
zoning, particularly Euclidean zoning. It's the government that has
been driving the zoning as part of their land use. So, does the city
council have the ability to initiate a zoning on a piece of property
unilaterally without the property owner's permission? Yes. Now,
does the property owner have rights as well in that situation?
Absolutely.
So, if, in fact, we had this six-month review and the council
believes that there are just some compelling reasons we need to
change the decibel levels or whatever the variable is we want to
change, do you have the authority to do that? I believe that you do
but I also don't believe that that means — well, how about this? It's
still subject to the constitutional considerations that I mentioned in
my prior answer.
Mr. Mohrig: I. guess another comment. I've talked to a lot of people. I've met
with people. I've listened with only a few exceptions and I think
other councilpersons have said the same thing. And I've actually
attended the venue. I think it's a great venue. If you want to attend
there, I think it is quaint. It does add something to our community,
which I think was the intent when all of us actually said yeah that
we think this would be a good thing to bring to Milton from a
concept standpoint. The question is how do we balance out the
rights and the concerns of the people that live very close by?
I don't even hear out of the people that have spoken here I haven't
heard people say we want to shut Matilda's down. I hear a lot of
support for the concept. The biggest thing I'm hearing is just
concern about the sound and then, also concern if we change the
attendance level when we're getting to the end of the season. And
that goes back to what Councilman Longoria said. I'm sensitive to
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the sound issues that people are saying because there's another
month. Maybe there are four more concerts, maybe five. So, I
understand the people who have endured this — endure is probably
not a good word.
People that have lived close by that have experienced it. I'm
sensitive to that. My question goes back to the city manager. Let's
say, and I'm not going to predict where we go as a council, but if
we didn't make a change and we left things in place for the balance
of this season and then, we did our six month review, during the
next four to five weeks, can we have someone actually gather
objective data from different homes and give us some more data in
addition to what we've already seen for that review?
Steve: I guess you're going to have to let me know what kind of data
you're looking for. I could already give you calls for service,
traffic volume, accidents, things like that, which mostly don't
exist. Going door to door, I don't know if I'll be able to provide
that kind of information. But if council wants to direct staff on a
certain data set that they'd be looking to look at, we'll do
everything we can to make that happen.
Mr. Kunz: My question was more kind of the data that we already heard from
the sound technician. If we wanted more of that where you had the
data at the property line as well as in the neighborhood so you're
getting more, I guess, objective data then, we can try to reconcile
that to what people are experiencing because that's the trouble with
sound. There is subjectivity as well as there is objective things to
it.
Steve: We've been measuring at every concert that's gone on since that
May 3 at specific locations that we identified. I can get you that
data. Plus, any time we got a call for service, we took readings at
the location for the call for service. I can get you that data as well.
If there's something else you'd like to see for the last few concerts,
we could put more together. Whatever you think.
Mr. Kunz: And have we addressed — I've heard both people speak tonight as
well as individuals called and said they had different — I think we
were learning as we went, including with our 9-1-1 call center
what we're recording, what type of calls. Have we kind of
reestablished that people now are recording if there is a complaint
that we're making sure that we capture everything?
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Steve: If one person calls and there is a police officer responding to the
call, they're not going to dispatch another call. So, if you have one
individual complaining about music regarding a specific location
and then, another one calling about that same location, you're
probably not going to capture that data unless we pull the 9-1-1
calls.
Mr. Kunz: Okay.
Mayor Lockwood: I'm going to just say a couple of thoughts and then, anybody else.
First of all, my opinion is Matilda's, this is a good venue for our
city when you look at the rural feel or the village concept or Milton
being something different than your average suburb around here.
And we all see it with the density and whatnot. And I hear a lot of
great things about it. I think it's a great thing. It's interesting when
this first came up to us last year, there was a lot of concerns, a lot
of different concerns. But now, as time has gone on when you look
back, it's really now getting down to mainly just the sound.
Even people that maybe in the beginning who were for it have said
we're not really trying to close Matilda's down. It's the sound.
There is a saying called paralysis by analysis. And we can sit here
and try to get more facts and decibel readings and this and that but
the reality is there are some folks that are hearing more noise than
they would like to. Arid how do you quantify that? It's hard to say.
And in one person's mind, it may be beautiful. And as people said,
in one person's, they don't want to hear it.
As far as the six-month review, my understanding and from talking
to Ken and our staff is that was a work session that we can discuss
it, go back to the applicant, see if there are some things they can do
to quantify or fix things or adjust things. But if we wanted to take
legal action, we'd have to go, as Ken said, to a much harder step,
which would be harder for us and a slippery slope. In my opinion
right now because of different reasons, this is before us, we're
maybe at a 4.5 -month session. But as far as review, I'd be willing
to bet that the same people that have spoken in favor and the same
people that have spoken against would probably be here at a six-
month review.
And maybe I'm taking a commonsense approach at this but why
do we want to make the applicant, the business owner, the property
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owner go through this again as well as the folks that have a
concern with this to come back out of here when we do have some
leeway with a zoning issue to make possibly some changes? And,
again, what I'm hearing is it's mainly the sound. It's narrowed
down to the majority of the concerns is the sound. So, again, I'm
going to suggest that we consider this application but maybe come
up with a reasonable adjustment possibly in the sound that, again,
we're not going to solve 100 percent.
There is always going to be some small issue. We could still have
our six month. We can do another one-year review. And if there is
something we can do and the applicant is willing to do it, that's the
case. But, again, I just think we're all here. I think the same
concerns that we are hearing tonight are going to be here a month
from now if we have a review. And, again, I hate to put everybody
through it, including ourselves if there is something that we can
come to a compromise here. That being said, Joe, I think you — and
then, Carol.
Mr. Longoria: Yeah. I guess my point is in waiting for a review, we're asking our
citizens to hold back on the issues and challenges they're having
for the hope that at the review, we can understand and take action
or try to, correct something. If we make adjustments today, there is
nothing that guarantees we make the right adjustment. Just like
when we decided on 75 decibels, we didn't know if it was the right
number or not. We guessed. And we said in six months, we'll
come back and we'll see if we need to adjust it. But if we go and
all of a sudden hang this Sword of Damocles over the venue
operator's head that says hold it, we're going to be making these
adjustments all of the time, I don't think that's fair either.
So, that's why I was really hoping that when we got to the six-
month review period, we either have data that we get action and
understand and figure out, okay, for every single call when
somebody complained of noise, we showed up and took a reading
and here is what the reading was. And here is how far away it was
from the venue. And so, we started to map out what did the sound
dissipation really look like over that area. That's the only way I
figure that we can understand what should the level be at the
source. Because it's the level at the source that we're going to start
arguing about and that's the thing.
We can't just say no, 72 is the right number, 60 is the right
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number. I guarantee you two things. There is a number that's not
going to be right for the citizens who are complaining about noise
and there's a number that's not going to be right for the poor
people that are trying to operate the venue because the sound will
be so low, nobody is going to think Matilda's is a place to go to
listen to music. So, what do we do?
Mayor Lockwood: Well, that's to my point, yeah. You're not going to be able to get
enough data that's still going to fix it for everybody. You're going
to — again, those that have an issue, it's too loud.
Mr. Longoria: So, I guess we either stick to what we said we were going to do or
we don't. If we want to abandon the six-month review tonight, I'm
okay with that if that's what the council wants to do. But we're
going to have to make a decision then on what we're changing. If
we want to add people to the venue in terms of attendance and if
we want to change the decibel level that we allow, I think we're
negating the six-month review.
Mr. Kunz: Mayor, is it appropriate — I have a couple of questions for the
operators and the business? Is that appropriate?
Mayor Lockwood: Absolutely. Always.
Mr. Kunz: Okay. Can the Potters come up?
Unknown Speaker: Weren't we supposed to be able to present?
Mayor Lockwood:
Ken:
Mayor Lockwood:
Unknown Speaker:
Mr. Kunz:
Mayor Lockwood:
Ken, that would be — I know in public comment, you were allowed
to.
Well, the presentation in June by the applicant occurred during the
public comments section.
Right. And I believe the applicant was allowed public comment
and said they would hold back on that.
I thought the applicant —
I've just got a question
now. Is that okay/
Yeah.
Mr. Kunz: Two quick questions.
for the Potters. That's all I've got right
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Unknown Speaker: I'm the applicant.
Mr. Kunz: I know. But I have a question for the operators. I have a question
for the Potters. How many more concerts do you have this year?
Ms. Potter: Six.
Mr. Kunz: Okay. And based on your prior attendance and stuff, what do you
project your attendance to be for the remaining?
Ms. Potter: Last week, our attendance was 50. So, the reason that we're asking
for the attendance cap to be raised is three of our concerts did
reach the 200 level. And we were still turning people away. And
some of these people were people who had been coming to
Matilda's for a long time. So, it just doesn't feel good to do that.
And especially if the venue is not full. So, we have the room for it.
And it just seemed like right now is the best time to ask for it
because we don't want to have to come back at a later date to do
that.
Mr. Kunz: Okay. And another question because I know you are here tonight
because the city forced you to be here because of the site of the site
plan. So, I understand that. So, I know you probably understand
the decibel levels I'm sure by now. Can you tell me what they were
the night of Purple Rain was? Do you know what those decibel
levels were? What is your usually operating environment, and can
you give us some feedback on that?
Ms. Potter: I think on that night at the perimeter, when the police came out,
they said the decibel level reading was 68 at the perimeter.
Mr. Kunz: Okay. And is that your standard operating night? Is that usually
when it's at?
Ms. Potter: That was an unusually probably piercing band. So, I don't think
that that's going to be what most of our concerts sound like. And
I'm sure that there are concerts that even at Breenridge they didn't
hear as much or they were tolerable to it. I think that Breenridge
seems to be a place that is, for some reason, getting a lot of sound,
even more so than any of the other neighborhoods around because
the study that you all did showed that the decibel levels were that
of a quiet home or a quiet neighborhood. And even 70 is
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conversation.
So, I'm not sure that we could do 60 and 65 peak at all. I don't
even think that's — and that's why I tried to catch the sound guy
because I wanted to find out if he thought that that was even
reasonable.
Mr. Kunz: Thank you.
Ms. Cookerly: May I ask a question and then, I have another comment to make?
You and I have chatted because I think I've attended the venue
four times. And I've made the comment that on three of those
times, we could speak conversationally around the table and one
time, we couldn't even hear ourselves think. And I think that was
probably pretty problematic.
Ms. Potter: That was Truit and that was one of those concerts.
Ms. Cookerly: Yeah. And I also took the opportunity to drive to all of the hot
spots and to walk to the property lines and do all of that. And for
the ones that were conversational as you're sitting there, there were
no issues in the surrounding area. But the other one I felt was
problematic in the neighborhoods, etc. So, I think it gets back to
common sense. In our conversation, we talked about band
selection. And I am no music critic, and everybody has an opinion.
But I think that you're sensitive to that and you have looked at that
for next year. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm
recounting our conversation because there are sensitivities.
My other comment is I would like to hear from Mr. Mills. I was
not part of this last year and I was under the impression that you
were going to speak with us. And so, if he's not on the agenda or
however it works, could we not hear — because I think Seven Acre
and the whole vision and the rest of this that we're looking at is
directly impacted to your business.
Mayor Lockwood: I think Ken would possibly, for Mr. Mills to speak, obviously, the
Council could ask him questions.
Ken: All of the questions you want, yes.
Mayor Lockwood: And if you get the —
Ms. Cookerly: So, we could give him 30 seconds?
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Mayor Lockwood: Well, you can ask him a question. He's welcome to speak. And
then, someone else could ask him another question, too. So, in
essence, he —
Ken: I'm just trying to provide you all guidance on the rules as I
understand them to be.
Ms. Cookerly: So, it's not on the agenda?
Ken: The rules provide that in a zoning action, minimum state law says
10 minutes for those in opposition and those that are proponents of
the — see, this is the thing. The zoning is an act of legislation by
this council. You all as a rule typically extend that, which you did
repeatedly tonight and that's perfectly fine. But that's what the
rules provide and that's what sort of due process mandates. Now, it
is also the case that the governing body, in this case the city of
Milton, gets all of the information it wants. If you all want to ask
questions of folks, you all have every right to ask questions to help
make a better, more informed decision.
And that's what I would recommend you do.
Mayor Lockwood: And just to clarify though, typically, in a case like this, the
applicant will get up and speak first, those that are in support. And
I think Ms. Potter did fill out a card.
Ms. Potter: I just did that because I thought I was supposed to.
Mayor Lockwood: And, again, I'm not pointing the finger at you. But that was kind of
understood that the applicant had the opportunity to — and, again,
Mr. Mills is the applicant, too, that had an opportunity to get up
and speak. But, again, you said you'd wait to see if — to recant. So,
again, that was the fact —
[Crosstalk]
Mayor Lockwood: And technically, if you have a question for Mr. Mills, you can ask
that and he's welcome to —
Ms. Cookerly: Okay. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mohrig: Before we have Mr. Mills, I've got a question for the operator.
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Ms. Cookerly: If you keep it short, Mr. Mohrig.
Mr. Mohrig: . I will keep it short.
Ms. Cookerly: Thank you.
68
Mr. Mohrig: We've got six more concerts left. Are you willing to still try to
adjust the sound level even maybe below what is the limit so that
you could actually get more in trying to work with your neighbors
Ms. Potter: The last few concerts, we've been doing that. Behind the
dumpsters at the Shell station, the last few concerts have been 60
to 65. And I think everybody in the audience was getting a full
experience, too. So, that being said, that's what we're going to be
shooting for. We're really not trying to offend anybody and intrude
into their quiet. So, it's kind of a learning process for us, too, to try
to adjust the sound down as low as we can and still make
everybody who is there happy with getting enough of it. Yeah, I
think we could do that. I am trying to do that. And I've run into
Judy and —
Mr. Mohrig: And you don't have to mention names.
Ms. Potter: We've talked there. We have both been back there at the same time
measuring decibel levels. So, at that time, we were both happy.
And that's been within the last three concerts, three or four
concerts. So, I think we're not where we were when we started.
We have already started to kind of fine tune it and bring it down.
And I don't know. More people that are there the more sound is
absorbed so that's a plus for the 250.
Mayor Lockwood: All right. Question for Ms. Potter?
Mr. Kunz: I have a question still for Ken, actually. So, I want to make sure
that I have the review versus the zoning requirement set in my
head. So, if we don't do anything tonight or if it is denied for
Whatever reason but we decide after a six-month review that we
wanted to do something then, you're saying that we can create an
overlay on that piece of property. However, would they technically
be grandfathered in because of the zoning that we passed last year?
Am I saying that correctly?
Ken: Well, no. What I believe is this. You wouldn't be creating an
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overlay. I think you would be modifying the existing special use
permit that applies to the property now. And I believe you would
be attempting to modify it to address the impacts it's having on
nearby neighbors, which you have the right candidly to do that
now within reason. But, again, where I'm going to get concerned is
is there is a difference between lowering the decibels to something
that might be reasonable mitigation to lowering the decibels such
that they can't be a viable music venue anymore. That's the
difference.
Mr. Kunz: And the point is is that we might have more teeth tonight than we
would in November.
Ken: You'll have no teeth in November at a review. So, hear me on this.
The review is simply a construct you all have created. To me, it's
an agenda placeholder is what it is. But it could lead to the council
deciding to start another process, which has all of the due process
protections just like tonight. Does that make sense? That's what I
mean, councilman.
Mr. Longoria: And to add to that, to clarify, we could make a decision tonight and
even a decision we think that's improving on the situation and still
have the review at exactly six months —
Ken:
Of course.
Mr. Longoria: -- and do the same thing. And then, maybe we look at it and say we
do another six-month review next year and try to work together.
And, ultimately, I think you've said the council does have the
power to change something down the road. It might not be a pretty
process but —
Ken: I do. But I will tell you that particularly when you're dealing with
an ongoing business enterprise that to the extent that we can work
in tandem with the owner that is better because the owner has
reasonable investment -based expectations on that property. And
we have a reasonable duty to exercise our police power to mitigate
the impact of that business venture on nearby neighbors. There is a
sweet spot somewhere.
Mayor Lockwood: And so, to clarify, tonight would be a better opportunity to do that
than at a review?
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Ken: We're already in the process. So, from the standpoint of all of
these good citizens that have had to come and speak tonight, it's
one less time they'd have to do that. I will agree.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I think Carol had a — you wanted to ask Mr. Mills a
question?
Ms. Cookerly: I would. I would appreciate hearing from you in the spirit of
opening the mic to everyone. I would like to give you a minute. I'll
just make it wide open question.
Mr. Mills: One minute?
Ms. Cookerly: No, no, no. I didn't mean literally a minute. I'm just asking you a
wide-open question if you would like to address this body.
Mr. Mills: I would.
Ms. Cookerly: Are you all good with that?
Ken: Well, and with respect, this is not about personalities. This is about
me trying to give you the best guidance I can.
Mayor Lockwood: Absolutely. I just want to keep it legal.
Ken: I don't really have any predisposition one way or the other about
the outcome. There does need to be questions. We need to try and
honor our process. We have available public comments both pro
and con. And when those end, I try to give the council a very wide
berth to ask questions. So, I would ask to frame it in a question. All
of the council needs to ask your questions of Mr. Mills and he
should be given plenty of opportunity to talk. But after the
questions have been answered then, just like any other citizen, he
would need to sit down.
Mayor Lockwood: Is there more of a specific —
Ms. Cookerly: Can I be more creative? Sure. I would appreciate it if you would
comment on the variances that are listed tonight, the fencing, the
landscaping, parking, the easement, vegetation under the power
lines, etc. Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Can are you —
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Mr. Mills: You can stay. Yeah.
Ken: This is a marginal — I'm just going to monitor and if I begin to feel
uncomfortable, I'll let you know.
Mayor Lockwood: And to everybody and Mr. Mills, please we're trying to be
respectful to you and the audience. We're just trying to make sure
that we handle it — this is an important decision so I want to handle
it by the book.
Mr. Mills: I appreciate that. To one of the comments, we're here because we
were forced to be here. No question. It cost me $6,000.00 to be
standing in front of you. I don't think it's inappropriate for me to
be able to offer a few thoughts. In fact, it seems completely unfair
not to be able to do that. I'm stunned but you have general
questions you'd like me to address.
Ms. Cookerly: I did. If you would address the issues in the zoning request. Thank
you.
Mr. Mills: Yes. There really is one item that brought us here tonight and
everything else tagged along with that. In October of 2018, Scott
Reese and I met with Community Development and told them of
our new plan to use the easement for parking. I had already called
Georgia Power. They said an encroachment agreement is no
problem at all and it was perfect. It's already cleared. It's flat. And
so, we rocked along trying to get the henhouse moved. In April of
2019 two weeks before the first performance, we met with every
department head, community development, police, fire,
communications.
There were like 15 people in the room and I stood in front of them
with a pen pointing at the map showing them where I was going to
gravel and put the parking and the easement area and it was a
perfect win/win because it was otherwise unusable. You couldn't
see it from the road. No problem. Our neighbors on the other
corners weren't affected. So, two weeks later, I spent $20,000.00
doing that. And a month later, I get a letter from Community
Development saying we only approved that for one concert. Now,
as my grandfather used to say, my eyes may be close together but I
ain't stupid.
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Do you think I would have spent $20,000.00 for parking for one
concert? Obviously, not. I'm trying to be a good citizen. Here I am
$6,000.00 later and because it is a lot of work, and you all know
that from your side of the desk, but it is a lot of work. We put in
the cap increase now because it's something we've been
brainstorming over doing in a handful of years or a year or two
years or whatever. We had 250 on our limit on the first concert and
it was the first one and it was rough as a cob but everything went
fine. We knew we could do 250 easy. So, really, it's about the
parking and we tacked the rest of it on because it's so expensive to
get here and time consuming that it made sense.
Most of that stuff is peripheral. Birmingham overlay, you're not
going to put the bathroom 400 feet away. from the venue. You
might as well walk to Seven Acres and use their bathroom and that
sort of thing. Georgia Power would not allow us to put parking
islands in their easement. They require full passthrough. So, most
of that stuff is administration. And to Couneilmember Longoria's
point, I'm sorry he's wrong. But to be clear, we're not asking to
increase the decibel level. We're not asking to increase the decibel
level
This is a Scribner's error where when Councilmember Jamison and
I watched all of the eight hours of the meeting again, it wasn't fun,
there were several versions of the motion. And the final one that
was made at Hour 2, at Hour 6 and 24 minutes forgot to mention
the other property lines. That's just a correction. It's impossible for
the police to enforce different decibel levels at different property
lines. And we can't manage to it. And so, that was I thought a no
brainer. That being said, with all of the discussion on noise levels
tonight, frankly, I'm pretty surprised to hear all of it.
I'm not surprised to hear that 90 percent of it is concentrated in the
Breenridge subdivision because that's where the five police reports
were. But we've been brainstorming over some solutions on noise
softening, deadening, etc. We're, obviously, well under our limit
from the test that the city professional did. In fact, I was surprised
we were so far under the limit because all of my tests were under
the limit but not that much. So, that was great news to me. But
could we put the site plan on the overhead and let me point to it?
Mayor Lockwood: I think we need to specifically ask that question before we do it,
wouldn't we, Ken?
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Mr. Mills: Well, this goes to the — well, it's a solution that I've come up with
that I related to the zoning.
Ms. Cookerly: Could you just articulate it before we need to yield the floor what
point you were trying to make?
Mr. Mills: One idea that I would be willing to do is to put additional
landscape buffer in picture a semicircle where all of the music
vectors go and hit the Whitney's house, I don't know if they're still
here. I didn't realize they could hear it from their house. That's
news to me. So, I'd bump it that way but certainly facing the
Breenridge angle. Heavy, evergreen type buffering. And you've
been there. I haven't seen you there but you said you've been
there. The back area where the port -o -potties — and by the way, I
deferred putting in the bathrooms when staff told me we had to
come ask for new permission.
So, we're still in port -o -potties much to everyone's
disappointment. But, basically, in front of where that is. And I
think that would be effective. Another idea we've had is to raise
the speakers and tilt them downward. So, from a noise carriage
standpoint — and the consultant said it was linear, let's assume
that's relatively straight. From a noise carriage standpoint with
more buffering and the sound being pointed down, I would think
fairly dramatic increase.
I will say that if you read my letter of whatever it was, information
or intent or LOI, one of the five police reports that had no one
home at the house that supposedly called in Breenridge, the officer
said there is no audible sound and recorded it on his microphone to
prove it. I just live past there on Birmingham Highway. I pulled in
two concert nights, rolled my window down, turned my car off,
couldn't hear it. So, you all don't live there but the implication that
every Saturday night it's concert time just isn't right. Obviously,
they can hear it sometimes. I want to be clear. But it seems to me
that that could mitigate.
Ms. Cookerly: Thank you. I have one final question that might be for you but it
might be for Steve. I caught wind of some zoning. Is there an
opportunity or a commercial establishment? Could you have
opened something adjacent to — do you know where I'm going
with this?
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Mr. Mills: I think so because that's one of the —
Ms. Cookerly: But I think in the public shopping center, if somebody wanted to
do music outside —
Mr. Mills: That's one of the comments that I had in my discussion outline that
I thought I was going to be able to — all of the 27 acres of
commercial zoning, except for the ONI probably on my office
corner but almost every one of those 27 acres could have music.
And it would be at 85 decibels. Seven Acres could —
Ms. Cookerly: What 27 acres about which are you speaking? Where are the 27
acres? Are you talking about Publix?
Mr. Mills: It's 27 acres in the Birmingham Crossroads all four corners.
Ms. Cookerly: So, any commercial establishment could do -.
Mr. Mills: Seven Acres could do it. Wilburn Rudy's did it. They had music. It
was typically acoustic guitar inside, slightly different but that's just
because, eventually, there will be a decent restaurant on the Publix
corner. And they can play music. And the would be allowed to
carry to 85 decibels.
Ms. Cookerly: Inside or outside?
Mr. Mills: Well, the decibel measure is at the property line. So, it would be
the property line.
Ms. Cookerly: Okay. That's it for me. And thank you very much.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. And, again, Mr. Mills, if we have more questions, we'll be
glad to let you speak.
Mr. Mills: Thank you very much.
Mayor Lockwood: Again, I'm just going to say what I'm hearing tonight and hearing
from all sides of the council, there is still an opportunity to have a
"six-month review" and we can see if we've got some
improvements there. We can extend that another six months or
three months or spring if we need to to try to address some issues.
We do have an opportunity, I believe, Ken, you've confirmed
where tonight, we have a little bit more I hate to use the word
power but control of maybe adjusting some things since there are
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some zoning issues we have to make a decision on.
What I'm hearing and, again, 90 percent of the folks against it is a
noise related issue, which is a lot different than originally the
concern. So, that's good. Hopefully, we can narrow that down. The
other option is I'm also hearing the applicant saying that he's
willing to put some landscape in on the perimeter that may soften
the sound, too. So, again, we do have an opportunity if we consider
the zoning to also add in some decibel changes as well as maybe
possibly ask the applicant to do some landscape, too. So, we're not
giving up anything. We still have a review if we want to and can
still plan that.
So, again, it may be a win/win. But Matt and then, I think Peyton
and anybody else.
Mr. Kunz: Yeah. Two questions. Is it possible as we consider the zoning that
we might want to legislate a decibel level peak or continuous at a
specific location on the property near Breenridge? I'm thinking of
an idea but is that too strict? Is that possible?
Ken: Well, possible. Is it legal for the council to fashion a condition like
that that attempts to create — I will tell you, in fact, it's funny. I
think that Councilmember Jamison's motion as it was transcribed
almost began to take that sort of a form. And that's what I think we
found has been difficult maybe for some of the folks to enforce.
But Councilmember Kunz, the answer is yes.
Mr. Kunz: So, we anticipated some problem areas. We just anticipated the
wrong problem areas the first time around.
Ken: Candidly, I think given the night how long it went, I think there
was just maybe some difficulty in distilling that lengthy meeting
into a set of conditions.
Mr. Mills: And we fell back to the ordinance and the sound levels and the use
permit so we were enforcing the lower threshold in the residential
areas as a result and 75 along the McCurry property line.
Mayor Lockwood: I just want to try to get to that either with time tonight.
Mr. Kunz: Right. And the next question is, obviously, there are only five of us
up here as well for everybody's knowledge and ours included. So,
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as a zoning vote or whatever, is the majority vote with us up here?
Ken: As long as this council — as long as there is a quorum in
attendance, which your charter to find a quorum is four, you can
take a full and binding lawful action with four individual council
members voting.
Mayor Lockwood: And we've got five.
Mr. Kunz: And that's majority, right?
Mayor Lockwood: That's correct. The majority of the quorum.
Ms. Cookerly: Can we review one thing?
Mr. Mohrig: Oh, yeah. I was going to add a couple of questions because I was
kind of going where Matt was kind of going because I think it's
easier to stick to all of the property lines and just tweak the decibel
Mr. Kunz: One level.
Mr. Mohrig: Yeah, let's just see where we're at.
Mayor Lockwood: That's going to do the same thing because the Breenridge side
seems to be the issue.
Mr. Mohrig: Correct.
Mayor Lockwood: So, if we do it all at once, it's —
Mr. Mohrig: Yeah. So, if we just tweak it and add the landscape buffer, I think
we're going there and this is the night to do it, at least in my
opinion.
Mayor Lockwood: I agree.
Ms. Cookerly: So, I hear you but do we understand sound and how it travels
enough to make a capricious tweak? I'm not saying that I wouldn't
be okay with it but why wouldn't we stick with why they were
brought here tonight and perhaps ask for — how many more
concerts are there?
Mr. Mohrig: Six.
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Ms. Cookerly: Six. For six concert studies and then, look at that and then, could
we not tweak later? And if you hate this idea, that's fine.
Mr. Mohrig: No, I'm actually going there. I guess my question is we already
know what 75 is. I think we already kind of get 75 might have
been a tad too high. That's it. And so, we know what we get with
75. We already know what we get with the way it's written. So, if
we can add some landscape buffer and I'm not saying tweak it to
where they will not be able to operate their business. Absolutely.
We should support them —
Ms. Cookerly: But I don't think that we have enough data to do that. And I don't
want to be onerous but it just seems to me that we could part this
out. Are you —
Mr. Longoria: Yeah.
Ms. Cookerly: A little more study on that, deal with that at the review and deal
with this issue at hand tonight?
Mayor Lockwood: And I'm sure we can. My only concern is we look at data and it's
across the board. And what may be 68 at the property line but in
Breenridge, some of it came back at 52 or 48 but it's still offensive
to the homeowner. So, or it may read a different way if the wind is
blowing this way or different conditions. So, my point is if it's 75
now, let's say we drop five decibel points to it, at least we're
dropping the peak volume. So, I hope that's in the right direction
for the citizens that are affected without —
Mr. Kunz: Yeah, I would agree with that. We do have residents that are
having an effect and we know that. And the only way we know to
do that is from a decibel level. It's what Councilman Jamison
mentioned. I'm not into legislating specific ways they go about
achieving the objective. I think they're the entrepreneurs. They can
figure that out. But we do have an obligation up here to set that
objective on behalf of our residents. And so, Joe, I would agree
with you in principle on that that way.
Mr. Mohrig: And I'll just throw it out there again. We can come back at our
review and the Potters can be like 70, I can't operate my business
at 70. And we'll just deal with it then. Or we could come back to
our review and the neighbors could be like 75, that has to be lower.
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We're stomping in our house. So, I think we're going in the right
direction and we're trying to be as pro-business as we can to this
unique business and understand the issues that we're having with
the residents and the operators are here and the business owners
are here so I think we're going in the right direction.
[Crosstalk]
Mr. Mohrig: I made the motion last time and that's out here.
Ms. Cookerly: I'll botch it so somebody.
Mayor Lockwood: Have you got a question?
Mr. Longoria: Yeah. And I guess what I'd asked Ken before because we've got
so many parts to this, I guess I would suggest and you guys can
change it and not do it is we take them one by one and make the
motion unless we want to try to [inaudible] [03:08:30] because
that gives us a chance to do individual discussion. Or if you want
to do a full motion then, I guess we vet the individual components
before we come to a vote.
Mayor Lockwood: Might I suggest we start with a full motion and then, if there is
something, a specific under discussion, we can change it if the
motion maker and second is okay with that.
Ken: Mr. Mayor, I have a question if I may.
Mayor Lockwood: Sure.
Ken: It will help me at least as I'm trying to assess this. So, the applicant
indicated that there had been a study and he indicated that he was
candidly a little surprised that they had been as low underneath the
thresholds as he thought. And forgive me for asking this out loud
but what was the numbers that were derived from that objective
assessment?
Mayor Lockwood: Well, if you look at —
Steve: They were significant. They're in the packet. I don't have them
right in front of me. They were significantly lower but they were
disbursed around in various locations. So, we have been taking
readings at every concert in specific locations. Two were the first
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residential uses on Birmingham Highway. And the other would be
across the street right behind the gas station, which is directly
where the music would most likely be its loudest. Whereas the
acoustician went out and took some readings in disbursed areas a
little further away. So, they did come back lower than some of the
readings that we would have come up with.
So, to give you an example, some of the readings that we saw and I
do have some of that in front of me, we take the two readings on
Birmingham Highway, the two residential uses just north of there.
The highest we got in those two locations were 73.6 and 76 dBa,
respectively, low of 47 dBa in both locations for an average of 55
dBa. That's the average of all of them, not just those I believe. So,
you see there is quite a spectrum of numbers there. Whereas you
see nothing even close to that in what the acoustician did, if I'm
saying that correctly. But the locations are a little different.
Ken: Got it. And there was a reason I wanted to ask that just because if
the council is going to take action with respect to this, I just wanted
to have that in the discussion and have that on your mind. But I
don't know where the council is going with respect to what it
wants to do to Councilman Mohrig's point. Are you all going one
by one or are you doing an omnibus motion at first to try that and
see if it achieves a majority?
Mayor Lockwood: Yeah. I'm not sure if there is a specific issue in the application that
you have an issue or want to discuss.
Mr. Mohrig: I guess my question was or statement if we, in fact, do one motion
then, we've got to address every individual component of what's in
here and do one by one as we list it. But we could do it as one full
motion and then, we could have discussion about those to see if we
want to amend that motion. I'm fine with that. One comment I'd
have is if, again, this is where it gets tricky. If people said that at
the borderline at the edge of the property, Purple Rain was 68
decibels and that was the most offensive then, we get into what's
the right level, which I think is what Councilman Longoria was
saying.
Maybe we need to get a little bit more data. But I'm open to if we
want to tackle this and we want to try changing the decibel level
tonight when we're here, I'm okay with going that route. And
we'll see where the motion goes.
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Mr. Kunz: Is there one item that you would separate from the group?
Ken: That's my question.
Mr. Mohrig: I guess we could go through as long as we — we have to address
every individual item. I think the most sensitive that we spent the
most time talking about really is the sound level. I'll just make an
observation as a comment. I did drive the subdivision. I drove the
area. I think part of the challenge there, again, this is sound, there
is almost a straight shot opening where the sound directs that it can
get over to Birmingham Highway. Breenridge subdivision is like a
scoop all the way out that's why it's Breenridge. So, the sound,
however it does it, travels up. And I'm not saying it amplifies it. It
probably does dissipate as it goes.
But I think that's why part of why they're hearing it more than
some other people. It's not a flat land. This is the low point where
Matilda's is and it projects the sound out. That's why I think that —
Mayor Lockwood: I'll comment on that because, actually, I find that at home. Again,
I'm sensitive to this because I bought my property and lived there
probably 15 years before the high school came. I'm up on a hill.
I'm two or three miles away and I hear everything. Hint, hint, I
liked when the applicant said they're willing to plant some
landscape and maybe turn the speakers down, which I think they're
willing to do. That may address it more than even a decibel level.
Mr. Kunz: Yeah. Again, I don't care how they get there.
Mayor Lockwood: That's why I keep saying we can have all of this data but it's really
who is being affected in their home whether the data came back at
68 or 42. If it's too loud inside of their home, it's too loud.
Mr. Longoria: I'd be just in favor of a little, smaller tweak just because the
business operator needs to work within those parameters because I
think we don't want to go too overboard and then, they can't
operate. That's all.
Ms. Cookerly: So, what is that?
Mr. Mohrig: I'm okay with 70. I'm okay with 70.
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Mr. Kunz: So, 70 continuous or 70 peak?
Mr. Mohrig: What's the definition of continuous? How do you monitor that?
Mr. Kunz: I just want to make sure we have that listed though.
Mr. Mohrig: What is it now?
Mayor Lockwood: It's at 75 peak.
Steve: There is no definition for continuous in our ordinance. We were
enforcing continuous erroneously up front based on the amount of
time it stayed above that. And I think if I remember correctly,
chief, we were doing it per song. Is that right? Thanks. But there is
no definition for continuous. Peak is kind of obvious.
Mr. Kunz: So, 70 is peak but maybe for two minutes would make it qualify,
right?
Steve: We were using roughly two to three minutes if we were going to
try to figure continuous.
Mr. Mohrig: This is just because we're going to be talking about this again. So,
let's see what can happen between now and then. Let's lower it a
little bit and —
Mr. Longoria: Make a slight adjustment. O
Mr. Jamison: I'm okay with that. Personally, I would also say I would like have
us still do a six-month review. I think we need to do that.
Mayor Lockwood: I think probably not only the benefit of the council with the six-
month review but it's a benefit of that business owner and the
residents and all of that. Hopefully, we're getting to a point where
it's a win/win.
Mr. Mohrig: But is it I don't want to throw another wrench in there. So, if we're
going to do the six-month review, what's the point of lowering it?
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Mayor Lockwood: Yeah. I'm not making a motion.
Mr. Mohrig: Okay. Well, I'm just kind of going through here because —
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Ms. Cookerly: Okay. So, then back to my counterpoint —
Mr. Mohrig: I'm okay with 70. I'm perfectly fine with that.
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Ms. Cookerly: Okay. But we don't know if that would be effective. Shouldn't we
Mayor Lockwood: All we know is it's five decibels lower than what they're allowed
right now if it was 70. O
Ms. Cookerly: Okay.
Mr. Jamison: Can I ask one zoning question? Someone had brought — one of the
public speakers had brought up something about the Birmingham
overlay and screening of parking. Can we get a clarification of
does that still apply? Before we just go ahead and — that's not
addressed specifically in that but that was something that came
forward. Is that something still enforceable? Is there a part of the
zoning ordinance that says in that quadrant of commercial along
the fence, it does have to be screened? And what does that
screening entail if that's the case?
Ms. McDonald: The district does require for parking to be screened. And usually, it
could be done different ways either with a building, which,
obviously, there is not a building there. But the other way is to
have like 2 or 3 -foot -high bushes or screening so that you don't see
the cars as much along the right of way.
Mr. Jamison: Okay. So, we got the one issue with the fence of whether —
Ms. McDonald: I'm sorry, what did you say?
Mr. Jamison: So, are you recommending that the fence needs to be moved to be
compliant? Your question is we didn't really address it. Even if
that fence is moved, does there need to be additional screening for
it to be compliant with what you as a city and our ordinance
kequires?
Ms. McDonald: Correct. But it also needs to be installed in such a way that it
doesn't cause for an issue with sight distance. So, that's a lot of
their — for the fencing and even if you were to put the screening for
the cars, you're just replacing it with one thing or another. So, we
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need to be careful where the screening would be placed outside of
the sight distance.
Stacey: The Birmingham overlay anticipates that the building is going to
be right up against the road with the parking behind the buildings,
which is why you're going through all of these variances of
moving bathrooms from along the roadway to 400 feet back. So,
that was the anticipation. One of the problems with screening, what
Robin is talking about, where you would screen this parking lot
would be in your line of sight looking up Arnold Mill, which is one
of the reasons why we don't want to see the fence remain there.
There might be other ways we could do this but I'd be hesitant to
say we could solve that issue right now. It's going to be difficult.
The parking along Arnold Mill, I believe we already included
some plantings in there as an original condition. But I don't know
that we're going to be able to entirely shield that, not to mention I
think there is some motorcycle parking that's right up against the
building and then, there is some vehicle parking on the
Birmingham Highway side that's right up against the building. So,
it's going to be a little difficult to accomplish that.
Mayor Lockwood: Maybe it's a little different. It's a gravel lot, too. That's the rural —
Mr. Jamison: We're talking Hickory Flat Road is where the fence line — Hickory
Flat Road. That's what you were referencing?
Steve: Correct me if I'm wrong, Robin, the entire Birmingham overlay
anticipates that you're going to shield the parking in one way,
shape, or form, correct?
Ms. McDonald: That's correct, yeah.
Mr. Jamison: So, we're not really addressing that. You're saying that's a non -
issue right now. The fence is the issue that we're talking about.
Ms. McDonald: That's correct, yes.
Mr. Jamison: Okay.
Mayor Lockwood: Anything else or does someone want to take a stab at a motion?
Ms. McDonald: Mr. Smith was here. He made a comment about the 75-dBa
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continuous sound. He made a suggestion about making it
maximum. And he believed that that was a better way to monitor it
or that you could enforce it by saying maximum.
Mayor Lockwood: Maximum versus continuous.
Ms. McDonald: But just FYI.
Mayor Lockwood: All right. Anybody
Mr. Kunz: So, I don't know who is making the motion or not but continuous
and maximum are two very different things.
Steve: I think, Robin, you're saying that the term to use is maximum.
Ms. McDonald: In lieu of continuous, yeah.
Mr. Kunz: Because right now, it's 75 continuous and that's a lot different than
75—
Steve:
5—Steve: It's not. It's 75. It's just 75 —
Mr. Kunz: Oh, it is 75? Okay.
Ms. McDonald: It's continuous.
Mr. Kunz: Oh, no, it's 75 continuous now. Steve, it's 75 continuous now.
Steve: My apologies. I apologize.
Mr. Kunz: So, 75 continuous and 75 peak are two totally different things. So,
I think we need to mirror the — I think it should be 70 continuous
because it was 75 continuous because I don't know what the peak
is based on what — I don't know. But I don't know how to measure
continuous. How do we define continuous?
Mr. Longoria: Does peak mean it can't go above that level?
Mr. Smith: Yes.
Mr. Mohrig: It's much easier.
Mr. Kunz: It is easier.
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Mr. Longoria: So, it's got to be below that.
Mr. Mohrig: And I don't have the data based on their concerts what the peak
has been. Do you see where I'm going with this? Okay.
Ms. Cookerly: I'm going to make a motion.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Councilmember Cookerly to make a motion. If there is any
discussion, you can do that after the motion.
Ms. Cookerly: I make a motion that we approve Agenda Item No. 19-196
consistent with staff recommendations and that we change the
decibel level on continuous to 70.
Mr. Mohrig: I will second that motion to have discussion.
Mayor Lockwood: One thing that needs to be discussed, too, but still clarify that we'll
still have the six months' review and address issues there and
moving forward, too, in the spirit of trying to make sure that —
Ken: The council has taken no action with respect to taking away the
November review. That will still occur.
Mayor Lockwood: Correct. I want to make sure we're not — go ahead.
Mr. Mohrig: But based on the operators here and the residents here and the
police, we need to know how do you enforce 70 continuous? I
guess that is my question.
Ms. Cookerly: Well, how do we do it now?
Steve: Currently, the officers us their discretion. They take the totality of
the circumstance and they determine that. If you want to come up
with a definition of continuous that would be the other option.
Mayor Lockwood: Let me ask a question because as we talk in the spirit of still having
a review, if it's 70, and again, I don't want to deploy police,
manpower, whatever where it's not necessary but are there certain
times where we're patrolling anyways that we could have one of
our officers at that property line for a certain time and take some
readings so that when we do have the review, and I'm not saying
the whole concert, but if they're patrolling the area, if they could —
or if there's an off duty police officer or whatever but if we could
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actually monitor the property line.
Steve: Chief, correct me if I'm wrong, you can shake your head yes or no,
we've been doing that at every show, yes?
Chief: That's correct.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay.
Mr. Kunz: There are six concerts left so let's —
Ken: I will tell you from an enforcement standpoint though, I do think
defining that term is going to be important. And I'm not suggesting
citations but even writing a citation, what is the amount or the
length of continuous? For instance, I have seen certainly instances
where it's been two minutes, five minutes, ten minutes.
Mayor Lockwood: I think what's important is to get that reading because, again, the
folks that are being affected and as we discussed it probably uphill
or whatever, it really just needs to be a baseline where it may be 65
or 68 at the property line but they're still hearing it. So, if the next
six concerts we see where they're at and there is still an issue, it
gives us a baseline that we can adjust or try to adjust.
Ken: That's right. And I'm assuming that the testing methodology is
going to be what it's been for the last 4.5 months will be the same.
And so, you'll still have that data point in November. That's true.,
Mr. Jamison: But is it safe to say without a definition it's probably pretty
difficult to enforce this during the next six concerts?
Mayor Lockwood: Why are you saying without a definition though? If you say 70 —
Mr. Mohrig: Because if I'm the operator, I think continuous is 30 minutes. If
I'm the one that lives there, I think continuous is 30 seconds.
Mayor Lockwood: But based on the 70 of the property line so as long as they're under
the 70 then, that's your baseline. That's what you're adjusting.
Mr. Jamison: For how long do you have to be there for? I guess that's my
question. The budget is completely out of it.
Mayor Lockwood: Well, under the maximum, it can be continuous.
1
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87
Mr. Kunz: I think what Peyton is saying is if all of a sudden it goes to 76
continuous but only for 10 seconds and then, comes back down
and you measure that and they're still in compliance technically
but 3 minutes later they go back over to 76.
Mr. Jamison: I'm trying not to create a problem that I can see we have.
Mr. Kunz: Which is why I think peak is the better term.
Mayor Lockwood: No, no. That's why I was under the impression — but you're saying
it's not peak, it's continuous?
Steve: Yeah. I went back to the original. My apologies. The original was
continuous. But, apparently, the acousticians recommend we go
with the maximum or peak as opposed to a continuous.
Mayor Lockwood: Because we don't monitor continuously. We don't. We monitor a
certain period of time and capture it and that's the basis for our
enforcement. That's why.
Mr. Kunz: You can go over for one second and someone catches it and
they're out of compliance, which is more enforceable in my mind.
Mr. Jamison: I just don't have the data to go to peak because we've been using
70 and so, we're kind of basing it on 70.
Mayor Lockwood: Seventy-five.
Mr. Jamison: Yeah, yeah. Based on 75. So, do you want to change it to 75 peak
and then, let's see where we're at in the six months? I just don't
know.
Steve: I can tell you we recorded — I can only say what we recorded.
Twice, we recorded measurements over 75. It just happened to be
when we were taking the measurements. We got measurements at
76 on Birmingham Highway and that would be peak.
Ms. Cookerly: We have hands up out there or whatever. Ken?
Mayor Lockwood: Unless you had a question.
Ms. Cookerly: I don't.
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Mayor Lockwood: Okay.
Unknown Speaker: You're getting into dangerous ground on the peak.
Mayor Lockwood: I think we have to base it on what we have based it in the past. And
if we adjust the number, that's one thing. But we base it on the way
we've been. And then, again, if we come up with a different —
Mr. Jamison: I'm worried we're going to put our officers in a very sticky
situation here but I think it has to be based on what we were doing
is 75 continuous to 70 continuous. So, I don't know if right now is
the time for us to determine what continuous is but there are six
more concerts. Now, I don't think they're going to go crazy during
these last six but I think we just need to be cognizant that maybe
the officers need to use their discretion. I just don't know what a
better way is to say it. I don't know.
Mayor Lockwood: Again, I'm just going to say the way — I'll wait until Ken gets —
Ken: I'm listening.
Mayor Lockwood: The way we're monitoring now, I think we have to do the same but
we're just dropping the decibel level. Now, if we need to come up
with a definition of that later but if we start changing one and then,
changing something else, it's — I think the intent is to drop if five
decibels from what it is now.
Mr. Jamison: Correct.
Mayor Lockwood: But I don't —
Ken: It may be, Mr. Mayor. If we're saying we don't have the data to
talk about peak versus continuous, you're trying to make positive
change here. I think all of the council would agree with that then,
perhaps just — you've got a motion pending that adopts the agenda
item with the one modification of the 75 to 70. Come November,
you're going to have more data. You could address this issue in a
Subsequent zoning or special use permit application should you
choose to. And if at that point the recommendation is we need to
go to peak, we need to change it to some other more sophisticated
testing methodology, you'll be in a position to do that then.
Mayor Lockwood: I don't know what else — unless you'd like — in fact, Carol's
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motion. So, we have a motion for approval with the addition of
dropping from 75 to 70 decibels based on the way we're reading it
right now, what we've been monitoring. Again, if you start
changing the definition then, you can only change one or the other
to keep it constant to see the improvement.
Mr. Kunz: So, Carol, I want to make sure I'm clear on the motion. So, you're
talking about increasing the number of attendees according to the
staff approval. You're talking about denial of the fence variance so
that he has to replace the fence according to staff
recommendations. You're talking about allowance of the landscape
islands that are there and, of course, the bathroom building
variance there, too. And then, of course, the noise moving out from
so many 5 continuous down to 70 continuous. Is that right?
Ms. Cookerly: Yes.
Mr. Agrawal: [Inaudible] [03:29:51] there's one more item, acceptance of the
new site plan.
Mr. Kunz: Yes, acceptance of the new site plan as well. That was in there,
too.
Mayor Lockwood: And I believe, Peyton, you seconded that motion, correct?
Mr. Jamison: Yeah. And now, we're discussing it. Again, there was some
discussion about the applicant possibly turning the speakers down
a little bit. I don't know if we can add that in there or not, Ken. Or
if that's something that they elect to do and then, when we do our
review, see if that makes any difference.
Ken: Right, you could. But, again, here at the council chamber, trying to
fashion a condition about the turning the speakers down, you could
but I just don't know how you would frame the condition at this
point.
Mr. Kunz: I do have one more. Would the maker of the motion be willing to
amend it so that the property line closest to the Breenridge
subdivision has a continuous noise dBa of 65 only in that location?
Ms. Cookerly: Matt, that is way beyond my pay grade. And I think that that is just
not something that — I think we're going to be able to get where we
want to go by concert selection and the efforts that the property
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owner and the venue director, lessee or whatever, tinker with and
get there in the spirit of good neighbors. So, I am not trying to be
difficult. I just don't know what that does and I don't know how to
make people happy unless we keep tinkering. And I'm not sure an
absolute number on one side of the property gets us there. I think
smart people need to be brought in and we need to do things.
So, I would rather put it on the good will of those people and this
governing body to make sure that we make these folks as happy as
they can possibly be rather than putting that out there on one side
of the property because I'm not sure that anybody on the other side
who might be unhappy — and there are people on the Breenridge
side of the property that are happy because I've heard from them,
too. There are people in Breenridge that are happy. So, I hear you
but I think I wouldn't want to split that up just because I don't
know how to do it.
Mr. Kunz: And I understand exactly where you're going. I just think if we
take our small baby steps, we're probably going in the right
direction. And if you start tinkering with different decibel levels
then, you can just turn the stage and you piss off the other neighbor
and say well, why did I not get what they got. And so, I think if we
keep it concise, it's easier for everybody. That's just my two cents.
Ms. Cookerly: I think this is a process. And I think we have matters before us that
staff has done a lot of work on. And I think they seem reasonable
and almost no one cares about them. But we have some work to do
on noise and I think we can take that in a process manner going
forward. And I'm not opposed to looking at it again. I think 70 was
just something a sign of good faith maybe at this point in time to
say we're cognizant that there is controversy.
Mayor Lockwood: I would agree that, obviously, we see all sides and want to try to
make an improvement for everybody. Okay.
Ms. Cookerly: So, there is my motion.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. You got your motion. You got a second.
Ms. Cookerly: Is anybody going to vote on it?
Mr. Longoria: We're under discussion.
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Mayor Lockwood: Discussion.
Mr. Kunz: I've got one more question for staff, too, just from our recollection
as well. So, decibels double every how many DB's —
Steve: I wish I could answer that. I would have liked to have keep Mr.
Smith here.
Mr. Kunz: Yeah.
Mayor Lockwood: All right. Any more discussion?
Mr. Longoria: Yeah. As long as we're going to do the November, we're agreeing
we are going to do the November review.
Mr. Kunz: And I have one more thing, too. And I just want to say I apologize
to Mr. Mills. I misspoke. I thought that you guys brought it forth. I
said premature. That was incorrect so I want to make sure I said
that specifically before this vote.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay.
Mr. Jamison: And I guess my comment is I don't know if 70 is going to be
enough. I know that's why Matt was saying 65 because we don't
know. We know that where it is today, we've got a lot of unhappy
people that live nearby. So, as long as we've got the ability after
the next six concerts when we do that review, we can talk and look
at more data. The other question is I'm wondering if you'd be
willing to amend 3A3 and leave it at the current attendance levels
versus increasing the remainder of this season.
Ms. Cookerly: Well, I'll tell you how I feel about that. Having gone there and I
think a number of times when it was nowhere close to capacity and
maybe one time where it was, I really don't think 50 additional
people will make any difference. But I think that it could have an
impact in terms of success because here is the deal. Not every
concert makes money. And you might have a string of three or four
that are not making money or might underperform. People go to
ball games. They do this, they do that. But it gives you an
opportunity on some to have the upside. So, I'm not married to that
but I don't necessarily — I think sort of the free market will
determine that.
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Mr. Mohrig: Then, I guess let me ask legal a question. So, if we make this
change and the chances are the next six concerts, they're not going
to have capacity at 300 people if they do an event or 250, do we
have the right if we're saying we probably have to tweak, we may
have to tweak the sound level, we don't know, do we have the
right to come back and say next year, if us and they start having
250 every time and it's not working out, do we have the right to
come back and say we got it wrong, we shouldn't have increased
it, we need to go back, we need to pare back to 200?
Or are you telling me our hands are tied if we've approved that,
now there's an economic impact?
Ken: It will depend, Councilmember Mohrig. It is unlikely we would not
be able to tweak that. Clearly, there can be a viable business at this
location without that number. However, the facts will control. And
if, in fact, based upon that additional accommodation there have
been investments made on the property to handle those additional
folks that might make me change my opinion. But right now,: I
think the answer would be no. We would have the right to go back.
Mr. Mohrig: You're saying we would have the right to change.
Ken: That's my answer this evening is yes. But, again, when that issue
comes up, I'll have to access the facts at that time based upon what
the owner may have done on the property in reliance on that
additional capacity. Does that make sense?
Mayor Lockwood: And somebody brought up earlier and I know with sound the little
bit that I know about it, more soft whether it's bodies, trees, things
like that absolutely will absorb some sound.
Mr. Kunz: Yeah. I think if we're tweaking the sound, I can go with the current
motion.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, please say
aye.
All: Aye.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Cookerly moved to approve Agenda Item No. 19-
196 consistent with staff recommendations with the following revisions:
4) To the owner's agreement to the following site development considerations:
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d. The maximum noise permitted measured at all the adjacent property lines.
shall not exceed:* 70 dBa continuous sound on Fridays or Saturdays between the
hours of 7:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. (VC 18-06, Part 3)
Councilmember Jamison seconded the motion. The motion passed (5-0).
Councilmember Longoria was absent from the vote. Councilmember Bentley
recused herself from the vote.
Mayor Lockwood: Are there any opposed? Okay. That was unanimous with those that
are there. All right. Thank you, everybody for being here. We've
got Laura back here. We can take a five-minute break. Can I have
a motion that we take a five-minute break.
Mr. Kunz: So moved.
Mr. Jamison: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: All in favor, please say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: Are we on? We're readjourned. Do I have a motion to readjourn? I
think I do. Second?
Mr. Kunz: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: All in favor, say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. Okay. Let's move on to unfinished business,
Stacey.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
1. Consideration of an Ordinance of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton,
Georgia, to Adopt Amendments to the Fiscal Year 2019 Budget for Each Fund of
the City of Milton, Georgia Amending the Amounts Shown in Each Budget as
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1
Expenditures, Amending the Several Items of Revenue Anticipations, Prohibiting
Expenditures to Exceed Appropriations and Prohibiting Expenditures to Exceed
Actual Funding Available.
ORDINANCE NO. 19-09-403
(Agenda Item No. 19-194)
(First Presentation at the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(First Public Hearing the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(Bernadette Harvill, Finance Director)
Stacey: The first item under unfinished business is consideration of an
ordinance of the mayor and council of the city of Milton, Georgia
too adopt amendments to the fiscal year 2019 budget for each fund
of the city of Milton, Georgia amending the amount shown in each
budget as expenditures, amending the several items of revenue
anticipations for expenditures to exceed appropriations and
prohibiting expenditures to exceed actual funding available.
Agenda Item No. 19-194, the first presentation was at the
September 9, 2019 city council meeting.
The first public hearing was at the same council meeting. Ms.
Bernadette Harvill.
Ms. Harvill: Good evening, Mayor and Council. Before you we have the FY
2019 amendments. As we have gone over, these amendments are
updating the anticipations for revenues. You'll see that we have
three major line items to be changed here. Insurance premium
taxes are coming in higher than anticipated. We're looking to
increase that by $300,000.00. The next largest we have is sale of
surplus equipment at $154,500.00. And then, realized gain an loss
on investments at $115,000.00.
You'll also see within several departments where we have
decreased their spending line items in order to help fund the
transfer out to the capital projects fund to start some of the projects
that we've seen through the recent approval of the master plan
processes. Here are those detailed line items for the revenue,
expenditure anticipations. And here are those details by department
for those decreases. You also see there an increase for legal as we
had some unanticipated higher than typical expenses in that
department this year. And there is the end where we have the
transfer out of $1.4 million and $26,000.00 to the capital projects
fund and the capital grant fund, respectively.
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Here, we have the amendments to the special events fund, the
hotel/motel tax fund, confiscated assets fund, and E9-1-1 fund.
That is just suring up the revenue anticipation and expenditure
anticipations for each of those funds. Special events, we are
increasing for Rock for Rescue's revenue received, Gas South
Partnership revenues received, as well as the additional hotel/motel
tax revenues we're anticipating. Also, increasing by $10,000.00,
the professional fees for the Crab Apple Fest in order to have the
third -party help manage that festival.
Here, you'll see the corresponding income revenues and outgoing
transfers for the hotel/motel tax fund into special events fund. We
have the confiscated assets fund. We did receive some confiscated
asset revenues increasing that by $14,825.00. And some interest
revenue earned for $36.00. And then, the corresponding
expenditures over education and training and computer software
for the federal fund spending and the Police Department. We have
the E94-1 fund coming in higher than anticipated, a $25,000.00
increase to the revenue line and then, a corresponding $25,000.00
out to pay the contract for the city of Alpharetta for a portion of
those E9-1-1 expenditures.
We have the capital projects fund, the green space bond fund,
[inaudible] [03:41:42] fund as well as the capital grant fund,
impact fees, and revenue bond fund with also having anticipated
revenue increases and expenditure increases correspondingly.
Here, we have the revenues by source for the capital projects fund.
The majority you're seeing coming in for the operating transfer in
from the general fund that we just spoke about. We also have an
agreement with Fulton County to pay for a portion of the
improvements at Freemanville and Providence. Here are the
corresponding expenditures for those revenue increases.
As we spoke about, we are moving the money out of land
conservation that have been collected over the years for the South
Tower lease fees into the former Milton Country Club passive
improvements. We have some bridge replacement money there and
some payment improvements as well. And then, here on the end,
you'll see those site improvements for the former Milton Country
Club passive and active. We also have parking trail expansion
increases in order to obtain any possible parcels of land that may
become available for active park space. In the green space bond
fund, we have an increase for interest revenues.
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M.
1
Again, we were able to receive more revenues than anticipated at
$175,000.00. And then, under the land conservation, you will see
an amendment to correct for any additional proceeds or interest
revenues earned over the last two years. In the [inaudible] fund,
we have a slight increase of $14,200.00 for the interest in that
account as well. In the capital grant fund, we have a little bit of
clean up here. We did not receive the LCI funds but we did receive
a smart communities grant. We also have the USTA grant with the
tennis courts. This is moving those revenues and expenditures in
order to account for those grants and what we will be receiving.
We have the impact fees fund.
Ms. Bentley: Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to approve Agenda Item No. 19-
194.
Mr. Mohrig: Second.
Impact fees came in higher than anticipated across all of the line
items. This is updating those revenues and the corresponding
expenditure accounts for those projects that are able to be spent by
those funds. And lastly, we have the revenue bond fund. We'll be
going out for the revenue bond issuance so this will actually carry
into FY 2020. But this is increasing it for those items you all
approved about a couple of weeks ago. That is the end of the FY
2019 amendments.
Mayor Lockwood:
Okay. Are there any questions? I appreciate it. And I know we've
all turned over a bunch. Go ahead.
Mr. Kunz:
At the very beginning, you mentioned that we had some increases
in our taxes, is that right? Is there $300,000.00 or so?
Ms. Harvill:
Oh, insurance premium taxes.
Mr. Kunz:
Insurance premium taxes. I just wanted to make sure I got that.
Ms. Harvill:
That is a tax on all insurance policies written to residents within
this jurisdiction.
Mr. Kunz:
Okay. I wasn't clear. Thanks. That was it.
Mayor Lockwood:
Okay. Anybody else?, Okay. I'll open it up for a motion.
Ms. Bentley: Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to approve Agenda Item No. 19-
194.
Mr. Mohrig: Second.
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Mayor Lockwood: I have a motion for approval from Councilmember Bentley with a
second from Councilmember Mohrig. All in favor, please say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: Any opposed? That passes unanimous. All right. Stacey, if you
would please call the next unfinished business item.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Bentley moved to approve Agenda Item No. 19-194.
Councilmember Mohrig seconded the motion. The motion passed (6-0). Councilmember
Longoria was absent for the vote.
1. Consideration of an Ordinance of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton,
Georgia, to Adopt the Fiscal Year 2020 Budget for Each Fund of the City of
Milton, Georgia Appropriating the Amounts Shown In Each Budget as
Expenditures, Adopting the Several Items of Revenue Anticipations, Prohibiting
Expenditures to Exceed Appropriations and Prohibiting Expenditures to Exceed
Actual Funding Available.
ORDINANCE NO. 19-09-404
(Agenda Item No. 19-195)
(Discussed at the August 12, 2019 City Council Work Session)
(First Presentation at the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(First Public Hearing the September 9, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(Second Public Hearing the September 23, 2019 City Council Meeting)
(Bernadette Harvill, Finance Director)
Stacey: The next item is consideration of an ordinance of the mayor and
council of the city of Milton, Georgia to adopt the fiscal year 2020
budget for each fund of the city of Milton, Georgia appropriating
the amount show in each budget as expenditures, adopting the
several items of revenue anticipations, prohibiting expenditures to
exceed appropriations, and prohibiting expenditures to exceed
actual funding available, Agenda Item No. 19-195. This was
discussed at the August 12, 2019 city council work session. The
first presentation was at the September 9, 2019 city council
meeting.
The first public hearing was also at the September 9, 2019 city
council meeting. The second public hearing was heard earlier
tonight on September 23 city council meeting. Ms. Bernadette
Harvill.
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98
n
Ms. Harvill: As we have already gone over this this evening, I just have before
you on your screen the citywide budget by funds. So, you can see
the revenues and corresponding expenditures across every one of
the funds we'll be voting on this evening.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Any questions? Okay.
Ms. Cookerly: Mayor, may I make a motion —
Mayor Lockwood: Well, it's been, obviously, over prior to the meeting.
Ms. Cookerly: Mayor, I make a motion that we approve Agenda Item No. 19-195
as read.
Ms. Bentley: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Motion for approval from Councilmember Cookerly with a second
from Councilmember Bentley. All in favor, please say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: Any opposed? That passes unanimously, too.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Cookerly moved to approve Agenda Item No. 19-
195. Councilmember Bentley seconded the motion. The motion passed (6-0).
Councilmember Longoria was absent for the vote.
Ms. Harvill: Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you, Bernadette and all staff on budgets. We have no items
under new business. Anything council wants to report on. Matt,
was there a football game the other night?
STAFF REPORTS
1. Community Development
Mr. Kunz: We don't even want to talk about that.
Mayor Lockwood: All right. Then, we'll move on to staff reports. I'm just kidding
with you guys, you know.
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Mr. Kunz: At least you didn't have a picture of [inaudible] 103:46:531
looking at me.
Mr. Agrawal: So, I will try to be very short today. I'm giving you an update on
The Trail master plan. I do know that last week, the city
councilmembers also had an opportunity to draw their ideas on the
map. This week on Tuesday and on Wednesday, we are conducting
site visits for The Trail advisory committee. On Tuesday, the
members of The Trail advisory committee will be visiting the
Deerfield area and will be looking at the various improvements and
proposals for enhancing the trail system. On Wednesday, they will
be coming to the Crab Apple area to look at the various
improvements that are being made and the new proposals that are
in place.
On Thursday, we will be presenting the draft of the plan in front of
the Milton Arts Council. One of the suggestions we are coming to
is how we can include public art as part of The Trail master plan.
So, we do want to present this draft in front of the Milton Arts
Council. Tree preservation ordinance, it's finally we are on the
home stretch trying to finalize the document. We will be
presenting the draft to the Planning Commission on Wednesday at
the Planning Commission meeting. This will be their third review,
third and final review, hopefully. I have Planning Commission
chair Paul Moore here with me.
So, hopefully, it will be one of the final reviews, let's put it this
way. And we do want to present it to the city council in the
October work session. Equestrian zoning, we have hired a
consultant to make sure how can our zoning be more equestrian
friendly. That contract is in place. We had a kickoff meeting this
week. And we will be coming in front of the equestrian committee
in October just to get their ideas on this project. That's it. Any
questions?
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Any questions?
Mr. Agrawal: Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. If there is anything else you need, take some more
time. We've got plenty of time now.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council 100
Monday, September 23, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Page 100 of 101
Mr. Agrawal: So, I had two pages with me but I thought maybe I should be short.
Mr. Mohrig: I'm good.
Ms. Cookerly: We're good.
1. Police
Chief: That's good because I have a 50 slide Power Point.
Mayor Lockwood: All right. Chief, take a look around and just see who all stayed just
to — isn't it great.
Chief: My support staff, I let them go. Greetings, Mayor, Members of
Council. Just to report to you, we have had a little bit of an uptick
in our property crimes. This was driven by about 20 mail thefts
that we've experienced recently. However, the suspects in those
thefts have been identified and have been arrested. Violent crime
remains very low and is actually down 22 percent from this time
last year. In regard to accidents citywide, we're currently down
five percent with personal injury crashes down fifteen percent. And
out in the community, we just started another class of our Citizen's
Police Academy.
We have 12 citizens that will be spending about 8 weeks with us to
learn more about their Milton Police Department and how we go
about protecting our community. This has been a very popular
program with our city and the Police Department looks forward to
hosting these folks over the next several weeks. October 2, we'll
be hosting Coffee with a Cop at McDonald's in Windward
Parkway from 8:00 to 9:30. And on October 4, we'll have an
opportunity to engage with some of our senior citizens with our
monthly breakfast over at Phoenix Senior Living Center. And so,
we'll be out and about over the next month.
And that completes my report unless there are any questions.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Lockwood: Any questions for the chief? All right. Thank you, sir. And with
that, does anybody have anything else they want to add? If not, I'll
open up for a motion to adjourn.
Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, September 23, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Page 101 of 101
1
Mr. Mohrig: So moved.
Mr. Jamison: Second.
101
Mayor Lockwood: We have a motion and a second. Do you have a comment, sir? A
motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. All in favor, please
say aye.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That passes unanimous.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Jamison moved to adjourn the Regular Meeting at
9:31 p.m. Councilmember Mohrig seconded the motion. The motion passed (6-0).
Councilmember Longoria was absent for the vote.
Date Approved: October 21, 2019
1
Sudie AM Gordon, Ci Clerk
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Joe Loc o 91qyor