HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - PC - 04-22-2008MINUTES
City of Milton Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 22, 2008, 7:00 PM
This summary is provided as a convenience and service to the public, media, and staff It is not the intent
to transcribe proceedings verbatim. Any reproduction of this summary must include this notice. Public
comments are noted and heard by the Planning Commission, but not quoted. This document includes
limited presentation by the Planning Commission and invited speakers in summary form. This is an
official record of the City of Milton Planning Commission meeting proceedings. Official Meetings are
audio recorded.
ROLE CALL
Commission Members Present:
City Staff:
INVOCATION
Paul Moore
Curtis Mills
Cary Schlenke
Fred E dwards
George Ragsdale
Jennifer Fletcher
Joe C reamer
Robyn MacDonald , Comm unity Development
Mark Law, City Arborist
The invocation was lead by Commission Member C urti s Mills.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
MEETING CALLED TO ORDER
Chair Paul Moore called the meeting to order.
RULES AND PROCEDURES OF MEETING
Chair Paul Moore read the Rules and Procedures of the City of Milton Planning Commission, including
procedure for filing out public speaker cards a nd time allowance for speak in g.
CONDITIONS AND STATEMENT OF COMMISSION
Chair Paul Moore read the conditions and statement of the Comm ission.
1
Planning Commissi on
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2 0 08
PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA
April 22, 2008
7:00 p.m.
Descri ption
I. Invoca tion
II . Call to Order
m . Pl ed ge of
A ll eg iance
IV. Public Comment
V. A pprova l of Minutes M in utes from the Marc h 25, 2008
Plannin g Commi ss ion Meetin g
V I. TEXT
AMENDMENTS
Deferred
A. RZ08-02 To amend Article 28 , Rezon in g and
Oth er Amend ment Procedures in
the C ity of Mi lt on Zon in g
O rdin ance
VII . TEXT
AMENDMENTS
New
A . RZ08-03 Article 12G -Hwy 9 Overl ay
Di strict -Sco pe of Des ign Rev iew
Board
B. RZ08-04 Article 12H -NW Overlay District
-Scope of Design Rev iew Board
C. RZ08-05 Article 12H I-Crabapp le
Cross roads Overlay District -
Scope of Design Rev iew Board
D. RZ08 -06 Article 12H2 -B irmin gham
Crossroads Overlay Di stri ct -
Scope of Design Review Board
VIII. OTHER ITEM S
A. LU08-0 1 Focus Fulton 2025 Futu re Land
Use Plan Map Amendment -
25888 Hopewe ll Roa d
VIII. A DJO URN
PUBLIC COMMENT
Chair Paul Moore call ed for public comment.
There was no pub lic comment.
Meeting
Dates**
MCC Work Sess ion -2/11/08
PC-4 /22/08
MCC -5/19/08
MCC Work Sess ion -3/10/08
PC-4 /22 /08
MCC-5 /19/08
MCC Work Sess ion -3/10/08
PC-4/22/08
MCC-5/19/08
MCC Work Sessio n -3/10/08
PC-4 /22 /08
MCC -5/19/08
MCC Work Sessio n -3/10/08
PC-4 /22 /08
MCC-5 /19/08
MCC Work
Sess ion -4/2 1/08
PC -4/2 2/08
M CC -5/ 19/08
Staff
Recomme ndat ion
Approval
A pprov al Conditi onal
Approval Co nditi on al
Ap pro va l Conditi onal
Approval Cond iti on al
Approval Conditi ona l
Approval Co nditi onal
Motion a n d Second: Fred Edwards mad e a moti o n to c lose pub lic comment. Cary Sch lenk e seconded
the motion. There was no di scuss ion. Vote: 7-0 . M oti o n un anim o us ly caIT ied.
2
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Chair Paul Moore called for a motion to approve the March 25 , 2008 Planning Commission
meeting minutes of the Planning Commission.
There was no discussion.
Motion and Second: Cary Schlenke moved to approve the March 25 , 2008 Planning Commission
meeting minutes . Seconded by Joe Creamer. There was no discussion. Vote: 7-0 . The motion
unanimously carried.
Chair Paul Moore asked Staff Robyn MacDonald to call the first agenda item.
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• Stated it was a deferred Text Amendment from March's meeting, RZ08-02, to Amend Article
28, Rezoning and Other Amendment Procedures in the City of Milton Zoning Ordinance.
• Staff recommended approval conditional.
Chair Paul Moore:
• Asked Staff to go through the documents page by page .
Staff Robyn MacDonald stated:
• In the first section there was just some c lean in g up like chang in g "Community Zoning Board" to
"Planning Commission" and "Board of Commissioners" to "Mayor and City Council."
• First coup le of pages was clean-up from Fulton County .
• Page 28-2 starting with "Petition Requirements" there were some changes. No. (8) under 28.2.4,
added PDF instead of transparency, (12) Public Participation Report changed Mayor and City
Council meeting. Stated needed to also add that the Public Participation Report shall be due no
later than 7 days prior to the Planning Comm ission meeting.
George Ragsdale:
• Stated to be co n sistent it needed to say 7 days befor e the Planning Commission and an update
prior to the Planning Commission meeting.
Staff Robyn MacDonald continued :
• Under No. (13) changed to say traffic impact study instead of just traffic study as required by the
City of Milton Right-of-Way Ordinance.
• Deleted the Metropolitan River Protection Act as that applied to the Chattahoochee; a lso the
MART A Corridor Plan was deleted o ut of 15. The rest remains except the renumbering c hanges .
• Next section , 28.3, Public Hearing and Notice Requirements , chang in g Board of Commission ers
to Mayor and City Council. Adding that the Community Zoning Information Meeting wi ll be a
required meeting for the process and shall read shall hold a public hearing following a
Community Zoning Information Meeting and a Public Hearing by the Planning Commission
where a recommendation was made on the petition.
• A lso added Notic e of the CZIM meeting s ha ll be given at least 14 days prior to the date of the
CZIM. Also c hanged to the proper entities.
• Added a new paragraph at the top of page 28-4 that read s: Th e applicant or agent shall post a
sign as issued by th e Community Developm ent D epartment in a conspic uous lo cation on each
stree t frontage of the subject property not lat er than 5: 00 p . m. on th e 14th day prior to th e CZIM
mee ting.
3
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
George Ragsdale thought it would be best to do away with the 5:00 p .m. insert and just say at least 20
day s prior to the next scheduled hearing date. Also striking the 5:00 p.m. in the prior paragraph as we ll.
Staff Robyn MacDonald continued:
• On page 28-4 the paragraph starting with, --The sign shall be mounted ---, the second sentence
shall read, Property that is not posted by instead of "on" the 20th day before the scheduled first
hearing date , etc .
• Paragraph starting Wh en the --made entity changes .
• Next paragraph starting with The Department, added or current residents ---with a minimum of
50 owners .
• Last sentence in same paragraph s ha ll read Renotification by mail is required when a petition is
recommended for deferral by the Planning Commission and is deferred for any amount of time
by the Mayor and City Council.
• The "or" in the sentence will be replaced with "and."
George Ragsdale said in all cases it shou ld read "and ."
Discussion between George Ragsdale and Paul Moore regarding use of "and."
Staff Robyn MacDonald continued:
• So it wi ll read and/or instead of just and.
George Ragsdale restated the changes:
• Renotification by mail is required when a petition is recommended for deferral by the Planning
Commission for any amount of time and/or deferr ed by the Mayor and City Council.
• Mayor and City Council can defer witho ut this Commission's approval.
• This change shou ld be in both paragraphs. When th e Planning Commission recommends deferral
and/or the Mayor and City Co un ci l defers a petition .
Staff Robyn MacDonald continued:
• The last paragraph would just remain "and" because it refers to a ll three different meetings .
• Next page added the Rezoning/Use Permit F low Chart -will remove the 5 :00 p .m. from chart.
• On page 28-6 changing the entities .
• Under Environment Site Analysis, added a subparagraph (h) regarding specimen trees.
• On page 28-1 1 changed entities and in paragraph beginning with Dialogue, wherever the word
"meeting" appears, change to "hearing." In last sentence wil l read Planning Commission and/or
the Mayor and City Council may defer an application.
• Under A., Public Participation Plan , (3 ), added at the end prior to the first Planning Commission
hearing.
Discus sion about use of word "meeting" versus the word "hearing."
4
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Staff Rob y n MacDonald continued:
• Stat ed it is consid ered a public hearin g.
• Said she was co mfortable callin g them hearin gs and wo uld make a glob a l change in the document
to c hange the word "meeting" to "h eari ng."
• B. on page 28 -11 , Public Participation Report, added befo re the Planning Commission hearing
and an updated report no later than seven (7) business days before -----Mayor and City
Counc il 's h earin g. These reports shall be made a part of the official fil e and a sum mary w ill be
prov id ed to th e Mayor and City Counci l.
• Small change on page 28-14 und er Zo nin g Maps, and Geograp hi cal Information System w ill be
amend ed to reflect the land use pet ition a pprovals. Remainder was de leted .
• Last secti on was de leting refere nces to expirati ons and ext e ns io ns of zo nings and/or u se permits.
• It was determined by the City Attorney that that should not be in the do c um ent, so a ll those
references were take n out.
• Reason is du e to the State Zoning Laws th at have to be co mpli ed w ith .
• Stated thi s was th e remainder of th e chan ges.
Motion and Second: George Ragsdale move d to approve the Text Amendments to A rticl e 28 as
presented by Staff Roby n MacDonald w ith the di sc ussed changes by th e Planning Comm iss io n. Fred
Edwards second ed th e motion . There was no di sc uss ion. Vote: 7-0. The motion un an imo us ly carr ied .
Staff Robyn MacDonald stated the next item was new Text Ame ndm ent RZ08-03 , Article 12G, Hwy. 9
Overlay District -Scope of the Design Review Board .
• Stat ed Staff reco mm ends approval w ith edit s in Article 12G .
• F irst change appears on Page 2 , 12G.3, addedfor approval and striking after standard s, here and
shall make recommendations to th e Co mmunity development Department.
• Next change was after Demolition Permit, a dd ed for both residential and non-res idential or
Primary Variance.
• T here were no additi ona l chan ges until page 11, 12G.7, A pp eals, in th e first sentence c han ged
Department of Community Developm ent t o Des ign R ev iew Board and then deleted Board of
Zoning and add e d Directo r of Community Developmen t. Last portion de leted department and
changed to Design R eview Board.
• Last item was the State Route 9 Overlay Di stri ct Map.
George Ragsdale:
• Stat ed th e ma p needed to be change d as it sh ows the portion of th e NW in the lower left-hand
corner.
Staff Robyn MacDonald stated:
• The ma p wo uld be changed and wo uld re pl ace the current ma p w ith a new one co rrectin g th e
correct boundary w ith Alp haretta.
• Agreed to read th ro ugh a ll the amendments before voti ng o n each .
• Read th e next Text Amendment , RZ08-04 , Article XIl-H, Northwest Fulton Overlay District
• Discussed with C ity Attorney the pream bl e to the Northwest F ulton Overlay Di strict a nd he stated
it was not necessary so it was remove d .
• Read o n page 2 in the middle of the page un der Design R eview Board the last paragraph , adde d
for approva l and then deleting herein and shall make recommendations to the Department of
Com munity Development.
5
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
• O n page 14 under Appeals , d e lete d Board of Zonin g Appeals and in se rt ed Direc tor of Co mmun ity
Developme nt and ch anging Department t o Desig n R eview Board.
• O n page 23, w ill mak e th e same c han ge t o th e Northwest F ulto n O verl ay Di strict M ap sh ow in g
th e correct ed G I S m a p s howin g th e correct b o und aries and al so in c luding t h e H o p ewell Road
pro p erty .
Staff Robyn MacDonald co ntinu ed :
• R ead th e n ext T ext A me ndment, RZ08-05, Article XII-H(l), Crabapple Cross roads of the
Northwest Fulton Overlay District.
• D e leted th e preambl e on p age 1.
• P age 3, l 2H(l ).3 , D es ign R ev iew B o ard , add ed for approval and d e let ed herein and s ha ll make
recom mendations to the Departm ent of Co mm unity Deve lopmen t and add e d t o th e last senten ce
fo r cl arificati o n purposes.
• State d she did not b e li eve th e Crabappl e Overl ay addresses appeals, but w ould d efaul t back to the
Northwest F ulton Overl ay.
• State d sh e would fini sh di scu ssin g and th en th e Commi ss io n could make a m otion for e a ch t ext
am e ndme nt.
• Read the las t T ext A mendm ent, RZ08-06, Article 12H2 , Birmingham Cross roads Overlay
District.
• T hi s has never been to uch ed from Fulto n C ounty as far as she co uld det ermin e.
• De leted th e preambl e and ch an ge d g lob a ll y "F ul to n Coun ty " to "C ity of Milto n ."
• C han g in g "R esoluti on s" to "Ordinances ."
George Ragsdale:
• P o inte d o ut to Staff R o by n MacD o na ld th at at th e end of th e fir st paragraph at th e t o p of page 2,
t her e was so me text mi ss in g. St at ed th e pi cture may h ave covered it, but s he sho uld ch eck this .
Chair Paul Moore:
• Asked Staff if th ere was an yon e to ch eck th is o ut to ni ght.
Staff Robyn MacDonald st ated :
• It was fr o m th e ori g in a l Zo nin g Ordin a nce, but s he wo uld researc h it.
Staff Rob y n MacDonald continu e d :
• P age 3 , at t o p of page, add ed fo r approval. D e leted and shall make recommendati ons to th e
Dep artmen t of Community Developm en t and add ed at th e end and fo r both res identia l and non -
res ide ntial structures for an d add e d Permit in th e last se ntence.
• It h a d been an ad o pted F ulto n Coun ty's Ordin an ce, so sh e would go back and look at it , a s it was
a certifi ed co py.
• Had h er intern go ch eck on th e computer.
• Told Co mmi ss ion s he was confid e nt it would be in th e Muni-Co de ve rs io n th at was certifi ed by
t he co un ty.
• Stat ed if th ey cann ot fi nd it, th e n th e Co mmi ssion co uld d efer it or make it cond it io na l th at th e
orig in a l ce rtifi ed lang uage be in sert ed .
Board D isc uss io n a bo ut their not b e in g co mfo rt a bl e a p prov in g so methin g w ith th e re be ing a p o rti o n of
the text m iss in g.
6
Planning Commission
Regular Me eting
Tues day , April 22, 2008
Staff Robyn MacDonald stated:
• Sh e was d on e presenti ng and the Commi ss io n coul d o pe n th e meetin g up to a pub li c hearin g .
Chair Paul Moore call e d for p u b li c comm e nt.
PUBLIC COMME T
Kathi Cook, 14670 Birmingham Highway, Milton , GA
Speaki n g on RZ08 -02, 0 3 , 04, 05 and 0 6.
• Stated she w as th e C ha irm an of th e D es ign R ev iew B oard for th e C ity of Milton .
• Re presented to th e Commi ss ion th at s he had ad v ised th e DRB m e mb e rs th at sh e would be
s p eaking at t h e Planning Commi ss ion M eetin g.
• As far as s he kn ew, t here were no o bj ecti o ns fro m her bo ard member s .
• Sh e stat ed t here were so m e ch an ges t h at th e DRB was not mad e aware of a nd saw the m o n th e
age nda for to ni g ht.
• Would like to have th e o ppo rtuni ty to rev iew th ese as a courtesy b efore any actio n is tak e n by th e
Planning Co mmi ss io n .
• St at ed th e next DRB m eetin g was in two weeks .
• H ad a sked Staff to a dd mor e teeth t o th e Overl ay fo r th e purv iew of th e DRB .
• Looked at oth er c ity o rdin a nc es and put forth som e of th e recomm e nd at io n s t hat were mad e
to ni ght.
• Stated s he had met with T o m Wil so n a nd showed him th e o rdinan ces fro m R oswell a nd
A lph aretta and he said he w a s more comfo rta bl e w ith th e C ity of R oswe ll.
• D es ign R evi ew B oard look s at thin gs a nd can make s ure th at th e proj ect meets st andard s a nd
a bove.
• Stated she did not want a person th at h as been given d irecti on by th e DRB to go over t o St aff and
try to co nv in ce th e m to overturn th at d ec is ion b ecause th ey say th ey pay imp act fees or h ave built
a road fo r th e c ity .
• Stated th at Staff h as a di ffe re nt re lation s hip w ith th e d eve lo pe r so thi s can put th e m in an
awkward pos iti o n .
• She said s he has bee n in th ese s itu ati o ns a nd fe lt it would be bette r t o have those m atte rs se nt
back to an oth e r board .
Curtis Mills:
• Aske d K athi Cook if she be li eved th e B o ard of Zo ni ng A ppeals would be in a better p os iti o n to
interpret th e t ec hni cal standard s aga in st w hi c h th e ir d ec is io n sh o uld be made th a n a c iti zen
th eoreti call y no n-p rofessio na l committee .
Kathi Cook:
• St ated th at if it went t o th e B oard of Zo nin g A ppeals, s he b e li eved th at Staff w rites th e
reco mm end ati o ns .
• If an a pp eal p roceeded, th ey wo uld actu a ll y s how them th e po rti o n o f th e code, and th ey wo uld
have t he in fo rm ati on before t h em s imil a r to thi s board w h ic h wo uld have the in fo rm at io n
presented by St aff.
• T he Board of Zo nin g Ap peals could make a dec is ion based o n w hat was presen ted befo re th e m .
7
Planning Commis sion
Regular Meeting
Tues day, April 22, 2008
S taff Roby n MacDonald
• Stated St aff did not make recomme nd ati o ns to t he BZA.
• St aff on ly prov id es in form at ion to th e m , bu t d o not g ive reco mm e nd ati o ns .
• St aff wo uld just present the sam e in fo rm ati o n to the BZA th at was prese nted to the ORB . Staff
stays neutra l w ith th e BZA.
Curtis Mill s :
• As ked St aff if th e a pp eal in a se nse wo uld be j ust a second o pini o n of th e same initial fact s.
Staff Robyn MacDonald st ated :
• In her opini on , yes o r there m ay be a dditi o na l materia l, but bas icall y she be li eved it would just
be a second o pini on .
Chair Paul Moore:
• As ked Kathi Cook if t he ORB ha d di sc uss io n to exp ress so me of t he conce rn s presented t o th e m
thi s evenin g.
Kathi Cook:
• Stated th ey did address t hi s in Fe bru ary, a nd they we re put o n a wo rk sho p agend a in M arch for
C ity C oun c il meetin g.
• She adv ised that C ity Co un c il had as ked fo r addi ti o na l informati o n t o be presented t o the m .
• Said she heard noth ing until she saw thi s was o n t he agend a t o ni g ht.
C hair Paul Moore:
• Aske d K athi Cook if based on the reaso ns for her conce rn s, had th e ORB t ho ught a bo ut comin g
up w ith a li st of co nd it io ns regardin g stand ard s , co lors , et c .
Kathi Cook:
• Stated th e re was just no way of cover in g everythin g.
• She re it erat ed a case th at made th e Board ta ke a c loser look at th e ir purv iew .
• She said th ere is nothin g th at wo uld cove r everythin g in a co de .
• Sa id th ere are a lot of member s w ith d es ign a nd p lan ne r bac kgro und s, bu t did n ot be li eve th ey
co uld put everythin g in an overl ay th at wo uld cover everythin g.
Kathi Cook:
• T here are so me requi re me nts fo r a pp o intm e nt to the Des ign R ev iew B oard .
• T he mem bers have to have so me ty pe of tec hn ica l ex peri e nce.
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• State d th at was co rrect, j ust for th e D es ign Rev iew Board .
George Ragsdale:
• He was co ncern ed that th e re may be by-law s requiring so me ex pe rti se of the board , bu t th e
me m bers were still appoi nted and not e lected members .
• He stated to Kath i Cook th at s he had sa id s he was concern e d a bo ut putt ing t he Com m un ity
Deve lo pm e nt Director in an un comforta bl e po s ition with res pect to th e a ppli cant.
• He sa id he was un comfortab le w ith puttin g a n e lected board in th at k ind of po s it io n w ith respect
to th e C ity Co un c il.
• If th e Co un c il did not hap pe n t o agree w ith th e dec is io n, th at wo uld no t wo rk.
8
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
• Secondly, the way the ordinances have been written, the exact point that Paul Moore talked
about is really critical.
• It would only al low them to make decisions on those things that were covered in the standards .
• He told Kathi Cook the example she gave was not covered in the standards and she would still be
in the purview of only making a recommendation .
• He said that was probably not where she wanted to be .
• The ordinance as amended does not give the board carte blanch to make decisions on everything
that comes before them , but only the rights to review those with respect to the design guidelines
in front of them.
Kathi Cook:
• If they are looking at this now and it is changed , then it goes back to city staff, then there may be
some additional changes they wou ld recommend .
• U ltim ately it would be your decision with City Counci l, but there might be other portions of
other ordinances that they may like to incorporate and be able to present for consideration.
George Ragsdale:
• If it is going to work that way, it has to be dependent on some codified set of design guide lin es
that can be used .
• Gave an examp le that if there are two choices in the city for a type of fence, the ORB would not
have the right to make the decision on w hich one would be right or wrong. If it is either/or then
the applicant wou ld have the right to do either/or if that is the way the ordinance is written.
• He stated he personally was in favor of giving more time for this matter because there is a lot of
work that needs to be done and was personally uncomfortable with the idea of a volunteer board,
an appointed board , having decision rights.
• Was absolutely fine with beefing up the design guide lin es, but believes this shou ld be m a
recommendation capacity as opposed to a decision-making capacity.
George Ragsdale:
• Asked Robyn if she wanted to finish this issue or continue with the discussion and go back to this
issue.
Cary Schlenke:
• Stated she thought she understood her reason for deferring to talk with the Community
Development Director and the DRB members about the appeal process change.
Kathi Cook:
• Said the Community Development Director as ked her personally if she would support it being
changed to that and she stated no, via an emai l.
• Did not know he had actually changed it or she said she would have presented it back to the ORB
members and told them that was what was being recommended and what s hould they do as a
board .
Cary Schlenke:
• Asked for c larification if at the City Counci l W o rk Se ss ion they a s ked for additional information
and what was it and whether it was in reference to th e appea l process.
9
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Kathi Cook:
• It was her understanding it was going to be put on the agenda for another City Council Work
Shop.
• Stated they had asked Staff when it was going to be put back on the work shop and they indicated
that was not their understanding.
• The next thing she saw was the change.
• Stated they liked the first part of it and that Staff took the initiative, but she believed it just sent a
little too fast and passed them.
• Realized it was just being asked as a courtesy because it did not have to have the blessing of the
DRB, but she wanted to be ab le to take it back to the DRB members.
• To ld PC the next DRB meeting was the first Tuesday in May.
Curtis Mills:
• Asked about protocol of voting for a deferral or going forward.
George Ragsdale:
• If they choose to defer, they can defer the whole thing.
• Stated his concern was that the board's deferral was only a recommendation and City Council
could make their own decision .
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• Said it wou ld not go on the agenda for 30 days if they defer.
• She wou ld pull the item and it wou ld come back to the PC.
• Reminded PC members that they would need to make a motion for each individual item.
Motions on Text Amendment
Motion and Second: Cary Schlenke made a motion on RZ0S-03, Article 12G, Highway 9 Overlay
District Scope of Design Review Board that it be deferred for thirty (30) days. Joe Creamer seconded
the motion. There was no discussion. Vote : 7-0. Motion unanimously carried.
George Ragsdale:
• Asked staff if it could be at their next meeting on May 27th , as 30 days would be beyond that
date .
Cary Schlenke:
• Made a friendly amendment to her motion.
Motion and Second: Cary Schlenke made a friendly motion on Text Amendment RZ0S-03, Article
12G, Highway 9 Overlay Di st rict -Scope of Design Review Board that it be deferred until May 27,
2008. Fred Edwards seconded the motion. There was no discussion. Vote: 7-0. Motion unanimously
carried.
Motion and Second: Cary Schlenke made a motion on Text Amendment RZ0S-04, NW Overlay
District -Scope of Design Review Board to defer until May 27, 2008 . George Rags dale seconded the
motion. There was no discussi o n. Vote : 7-0 . Motion unanimously carried .
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Motion and Second: Cary Sc hl e nke ma d e a mot ion on Text A me ndm ent RZ08 -05 , A rticle 12Hl,
Crab apple Crossroads Overlay -District Scope of the Design Review Board th at it be d eferre d until
May 27 , 2 008 . F red E dwards secon d ed th e mot io n . T here was no di sc uss io n . Vote: 7 -0 . Moti o n
unanimous ly carri ed .
Motion and Second: Cary Sch lenke m ad e a motion for Text A me ndm e nt RZ08-06 , Article 12H2 ,
Birmingham Crossroads Overlay District -Scope of the Des ign Revi ew Board th at it be d eferred until
May 27, 2 008 . Jenni fe r Fl et che r seco nd ed th e moti o n. T here was no di sc uss io n . Vote: 7-0. M oti o n
un ani mo us ly carried .
Chair Paul Moore th a nked Kath i Cook fo r her presentatio n and as ked St aff Ro byn MacDon a ld t o
present th e next age nda item .
Staff Robyn MacDonald
• Presented LU08-0l, Focus Fulton 2025 Future Land U se Plan Map Amendment -25888
Hopewell Road
• Stated St aff reco mme nd ed thi s pa rce l of land be d esignate d by Reso luti o n to be 1 to 2 unit s per
ac re.
Curtis Mill s :
• Co ncern w a s he th ought Ho pewe ll hav in g so me protecti o n aga in st d ens ity a lo ng t he road.
• U nco mfo rta bl e makin g a bl a nket ed reco mm end at ion of I t o 2 units pe r ac re .
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• St ated th e co rrect fo ru m wo uld be at a rezo nin g peti t io n case was be in g heard .
• Sai d th e preced e nt wo uld be by past board po li cy.
Ge orge Ragsdale:
• St ate d it was onl y la nd use .
Chair Paul Moore:
• As ked Staff if thi s was AG-1 la nd , wo uld th ey be settin g a precede nt by s uggestin g th at in thi s
AG-1 la nd th at 1 t o 2 un it s per ac re is okay w it h the PC per thi s rev iew w he n h istor icall y in AG -1
la nd a ll owed 1 uni t to t he ac re.
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• Stated she wo uld res p ectfull y di sagree w ith th at as s um pti o n th at it has been 1 unit pe r ac re .
• Pas t h is tory has been t hat it ra nges in most recent board po li cy wo uld be what is now V ic kery
C rest und er co nstru ct io n No. 9 , 0 SZ-135 , a nd the max units pe r ac re is 1.88.
• Base d on th e Land Use Pl an th at was e nact ed at t he ti me a nd wo uld have been co ns iste nt w ith
t hat land pl an.
• Sai d th at th ey required o ne ac re aro und Ho pewe ll.
• Th e ir po li cy wo uld proba bl y be th at th ey wo ul d not exceed 1.88.
Further Staff d isc uss io n w it h PC me mb e rs a bo ut uni ts per acre .
11
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday , April 22, 2008
G eorge Ra gs dal e :
• To ld Co mmi ss ion th at th is s ite th eo reti call y had sewer access o n th e ed ge of t he pro perty .
Staff Roby n MacDonald :
• St ate d th e sewer was on t he east s id e.
• Sam e pro perty owner who own s thi s pro perty a nd the pro perty t o th e so uth (No . 7).
• Th e parce l is reall y a ll one.
D isc uss ion w it h Staff and PC me mb ers a bo ut sewer referencing s it e ma p .
Cary Schlenke:
• Asked how thi s was di ffere nt th an Jo hn M cMill an's or Ken M o rt o n's sewer o n part of th e ir zo nin g
but not the oth er part .
Staff Robyn MacDonald :
• St ate d th at was th e Reso lu tio n fo r the Inter-Basi n Transfer.
• The Resoluti o n specifie d t hat land a lo ng th e west port io n can co nn ect.
• T hose bas in s w ithin th e Inte r-B as in T ran sfer are on ly land lot s t hat are adj ace nt to H ighway 9.
• T hi s pro perty is not a part of th at.
• It does not go a ll th e way down and pass th ro ug h A lph a retta and back into Mi lt on .
• St at ed it st o ps just so uth of Windw ard.
• Stated in he r o pini o n from a profess io na l st a ndp o int and fr o m a phys ical e ngineerin g st a ndp o int,
if th e a pplicant has grav ity to hoo k up sewer a nd t here was e no ugh c a pac ity in t hat bas in , th ere
wo uld be nothin g kee p ing him fro m hoo kin g up t he sewer.
• T hi s is her profess io na l o pini o n .
Lengthy di sc uss io n w ith Staff and PC m e mb ers ab o ut the sewer iss ue.
Cary Schlenke:
• St ate d th ey nee d t o look at th e bi g pi cture .
Fred Edwards:
• Sa id hi s conce rn was for exampl e loo kin g at No. 7 he wo uld rather be com forta bl e and c han ge
that to res id ent ia l in stead of co min g in w ith commercial th at c urre ntl y he coul d do.
• C urre nt ly he could a lso do No. 7 and No . 4 a ll commerc ia l.
George Ragsdale:
• St ated he fe lt th ey were still confu s in g and mi x ing land use and zo nin g issues.
• Even if th e Land Use Pl an says it is I -2 ac res, it is st ill zo ned AG-I.
• Woul d have t o ge t a var iance t o th at zo nin g if he desired to do somethin g d ifferent.
• T hi s reall y is o nl y t o make t he ma p cons iste nt.
• As ked Staff if P C was reco mm endin g a R eso luti on by C ity Co un c il.
Commiss ion Di sc uss io n with Staff a bo ut th e Land Use Map .
Staff Roby n MacDonald:
• It wou ld be a recommendatio n based on Staffs recomme ndat io n .
12
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Motion and Second: George Ragsdale moved that City C o uncil accept Staff's recommendation that the
Land Use Map be amended to indicate that the parcel at 25888 Hopewell Road be designated 1 -2 units
per acre on the Land Use Map . Joe Creamer seconded the motion.
Discussion:
Curtis Mills:
• Should have seen the difference between zoning and land use when he looked at the maps he had
marked .
Vote: 7-0. Motion unanimously carried.
OLD BUSINESS
Fred Edwards:
• 2-3 months ago the Commission voted for a Crabapple moratorium and requested a
recommendation be sent to City Council.
• Nothing to his knowledge has been brought forward or discussed.
• Asked Staff where they go from here regarding this matter.
Chair Paul Moore
• The Commission unanimously agreed to the letter that was presented to Staff.
• Not sure of the status.
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• Stated it was her understanding that someone gave the letter to the Mayor.
Chair Paul Moore
• Responded he gave the letter to Robyn MacDonald.
George Ragsdale
• Said letter or not, they made a formal request to City Counci l that they had not had a response to
in one way or another.
• Stated on May 11th it will be three months since their request was made.
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• Remembered they agreed to do a letter.
• Could not remember what happened to the letter.
Fred Edwards
• Stated he remembered at a City Council Workshop that the City Attorney took it to present to
Council and that is where it stopped.
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• Remembered that it was Angie Davi s and s he sa id s he was goin g to do s ome rese arch.
• Would make sure the letter gets submitted.
13
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
NEW BUSINESS
Curtis Mills:
• Commissioner Moore had asked Chairwoman Kathi Cook if s he had permi ssion to speak on
behalf of the Design Review Board.
• Concerned over what had happened with Heidi Sowder and the BZA.
• In his opinion he thought the Chairman or Chairwoman had the authority to speak on behalf of
their board whether they approved it or not.
• They wou ld be according to their own judgment subject to summary termination .
• Did not think they had the right to chall enge the elected chair of the board s or commissions to
declare that their commission or board approved their attendance at a meeting or the position they
took.
Di sc us s ion about Board and Commission members speaking in public on behalf of their Boards and
Commissions.
George Ragsdale
• Do not think any of them as individuals lo se the right to speak as individuals.
• Need to make the distinct difference between speaking as individuals and speaking as members of
the Commission in his opinion.
• Kathi Cook signed on the public comment card that she was representing that board.
• If she was not, she has at least perjured herse lf.
• His opinion is that unless it was somethin g they had voted on , he did not think anyone of them
should be ab le to represent the opinion of the board .
• Believed they probabl y should have said unless yo u are authorized by yo ur board to say what she
was go in g to say, you probably need to speak on your own behalf.
Curtis Mills
• Asked Staff to please follow up with legal coun se l.
Chair Paul Moore:
• Talk ed with Staff Robyn MacDonald about the Saturday morning ethics code of conduct training .
• Asked about sacrifices hi s rights as an individual citizen when he speaks at a committee and free
speech.
• Stated board representatives shou ld never go before C ity Counci l or any other pane l of any kind
representing this city or board without the firm commitment and voted authority given by their
board given to that person speaking .
Continued discussion about speaking at meetings as a board member or in an individual capacity.
Cary Schlenke:
• Stated she understood the discu ss ion among the Commission tonight about public speaking.
• Wanted to be careful they did not hang anot her member of another board by pointing thi s out.
• Understands what has been discussed .
• Do need to protect ourselves , but we still have freedom of speech so it is a fine lin e there.
• Do not believe she handled the presentation correctly and did try to get her to restate it.
• She did state s he had sent out an email.
• We do not know if everyone responded .
• If th e re are objections, believe she s hould get a s lap on the wrist, but not anything harsher.
14
· Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
• What she heard tonight about her background was a different set of facts than what she heard
from Tom Wilson .
• Tom Wilson brought up valid points and Kathi Cook did as well.
Curtis Mills:
• His earlier comments were not to suggest any malfeasance, to the contrary.
• Was just questioning their authority to even ask the question.
• Not questioning anything Kathi Cook said.
• Questioning whether a board or commission has the right to ask another board or commission
member if they were speaking on behalf of their board or individually.
George Ragsdale :
• Stated he personally felt they had the right to ask.
• In doing so would be doing her a favor.
• If things like this issue are to be enforced , then they need to be enforced consistently.
• Troubled by representations by HOA speakers stating they are speaking for that association.
Cary Sc hlenke:
• Asked Staff for a copy of their E & 0 Policy and how it re lates to board members .
Staff Robyn MacDonald:
• Stated she wou ld check with the City Attorney .
ADJOURNMENT:
Motion and Second: Fred Edwards moved to adjourn the meeting . Joe Creamer seconded the motion.
There was no further discussion . Vote: 7-0. Motion unanimously carried and meeting was adjourned .
Meeting adjourned at 9:00 p .m.
Paul Moore, Chairman
Planning Commission
15