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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - PC - 03-25-2008M INUTES C ity of M ilt o n P la nning Commiss io n R egul ar Meeting March 25, 2 008, 7:00 PM This sum mary is provided as a convenien ce and serv ice to the public, media, and s taff It is not th e int ent to tr anscr ib e proceedings verbatim. Any reproduction of this summwy must include this notice. Pu blic comments are noted and heard by th e Pl anning Com mis s ion, but not quoted. This doc um ent includes limit ed present ation by th e Planning Commission and in vited speakers in su mmary form. This is an offic ial reco rd of th e City of Milton Planning Comm ission mee tin g proceedings . Official Meetings are audio reco rded. Commission Members Present: Meeting Leader/C ity Staff: I. Invocation II . Call to Order III. Pledge of Allegiance IV . Public Comment V. Approval of Minute s VI. Other Business Paul Hackman, Curtis Mills , Cary Schlenke , Paul Moore , Fred Edwards , George Ragsdale , Jennifer Fletcher Robyn MacDonald , Community Development MEETING AGENDA Planning Commission March 25, 2008 VII. TEXT AMENDMENTS (New) A. RZ0S-01 : To amend Article 3 .3 .12 , defi nition of "Landscaping Busi ness" in the City of Mi lton Zoning Ordinance . B. R Z0S -02: to amend Article 28 , Rezonin g and Other Amendment Procedures in the City of Milton Zoning Ordinance. VIII. Adjourn I V O CATION The invocation was suspended due to no public attendance at commencement of the meetin g. PLED GE O F ALL EGIANCE The Pledge of All eg iance was s u spend ed du e to no public attendance at commencement of the meeting. Motion and Seco nd : George Ra gs dale moved to su spend the reading of the In vocation and the Pledge. Paul Hackman seconded the motion . There was no di scu ss ion . Vote: 7-0 . The motion unanimously carried. 1 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 MEETING CALLED TO ORDER Chair Paul Moore call ed the meeting to order. CONDITIONS A D STATEMENT OF COMMISSION Chair Paul Moore suspended reading the conditions and statement of the Commission due to no public attendance at the commencement of meeting . RULES AND PROCEDURES OF MEETING Chair Paul Moore suspended reading the Rules and Procedures of the City of Milton Planning Commission due to no public attendance at the commencement of the meeting. PUBLIC COMMENT There was no public present at commencement of the meeting. Chair Paul Moore called for a motion to suspend public comment. Motion and Second: George Ragsdale moved to suspend public comment. Seconded by Fred Edwards. There was no discussion. Vote: 7-0. The motion unanimously carried. Chair Paul Moore called for a motion to approve the February 26 2008 meeting minutes of the Planning Commission. Motion and Second: George Ragsdale moved to approve the minutes of the February 26, 2008 Planning Commission minutes as amended. Seconded by Paul Hackman. There was no discussion. Vote: 7-0. The motion unanimousl y carried. Chair Paul Moore stated the next item on the agenda was Election of Officers for the position of Chairman and position of Vice Chairman and opened floor for nominations and discussions. Motion and Second: Curtis Mills made a motion to appoint Paul Moore for Chairman of the Planning Commission. Paul Hackman seconded the motion . There was no discussion. Vote : 7- 0. The motion unanimously carried . Motion and Second: Paul Moore made a motion to appoint George Ragsdale for Vice Chairman of the Planning Commission. Cmiis Mill s seconded the motion. There was no di scussion. Vote: 7-0. The motion unanimously carried. 2 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Chair Paul Moore moved on to addressing the Text Amendments. The first Text Amendment being RZ08-01 , to amend Article 3 .3 .12 , Definition of Landscape Business in the City of Milton Zoning Ordinance. Chair Paul Moore stated that due to the limited amount of time allowed for their briefing before the meeting , suggested the Commission defer RZ08-01 until such time as it could have proper review and that it put placed on their next meeting agenda to be reviewed first. Curtis Mills asked if it would be appropriate to suspend the meeting, continue their discussion and then address the issue or would Mr. Moore's conversation be much lon ger. Chair Paul Moore stated he did not know the answer. Cary Schlenke stated since everyone was together , they should take advantage of the time and discuss it. George Ragsdale asked Paul Moore since he indicated he had several pages of notes, if he was prepared to discuss it tonight. Chair Paul Moore said he would be better prepared if it were deferred, but would go ahead if they wanted to. He said he could discuss some of the points, but did not want to draw any conclusions this evening. George Ragsdale said the next Planning Commission meeting was on April 22nd. Staff Robyn MacDonald reiterated the meeting was on Apri l 22nd and then the next Council meeting is Apri l 28th . Her hesitation was their getting their packets with the recommendations. It would only be 6 days apart. Th ey could be briefed, but it may not be in their packet at that time . They usually want some hardcopy in their hands to look at. Chair Paul Moore stated after further review of the topics from his notes , he stated he would prefer to have the discussion at a briefing meeting instead. Curtis Mills asked if they could halt the meeting , discuss some of it in an off-the-record briefing meeting format and then reconvene. Staff Robyn MacDonald stated if Paul wants to do it that way , she suggested that at the next meeting it would be heavy because of the Highway 9 issue that had been deferred for six months , so that agenda is going to be substantial. Chair Paul Moore suggested deferring this issue this evening and at the close of the meeting the Commission move to another briefing meeting to continue discussion and not as a part of the Planning Commission meeting. 3 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Curtis Mills stated he was a little uncomfortable that there was discussion that we might want to have that is not to be shared with the public. Cary Schlenke said she was uncomfortable as well. Chair Paul Moore stated that for the record there was nothing he intended to say in the confines of a briefing meeting that he would not put into public record if called upon to do so at an appropriate time. Cary Schlenke wanted to go ahead and just discuss it. She said the Commission had already talked for 20 minutes about why we should not talk about it. Curtis Mills said either to do it this way or just end the meeting and have the discussion. Chair Paul Moore stated this was what he was trying to avoid by having the briefing meeting on top of the same night as the Planning Commission meeting where there is insufficient time to discuss all the matters. By addressing the other items, it did not provide adequate time to discuss this topic which deserved the same preparatory work prior to the meeting. Chair Paul Moore reiterated that he did not feel he was prepared to talk about it. Staff Robyn MacDonald voiced her concern about the fact that there could be applications or situations that the city could lose out on if the definitions are not fixed immediately and then go back to whatever issues need to be discussed at a later time. Chair Paul Moore stated his suggestion is that they defer for the moment and still take advantage of the evening for a briefing discussion , but not as a part of the Planning Commission meeting and still discuss this evening while everyone is present and can still move forward prior to the next Planning Commission meeting that would take place prior to the next City Council meeting. Motion and Second: Paul Moore made a motion to defer the discussion regarding RZ08-01 to the Planning Commission's next briefing meeting to be heard before public hearing at the next Planning Commission meeting. Seconded by Paul Hackman. No further discussion. Vote: 4-3 , with Cary Schlenke, Jennifer Fletcher, George Ragsdale and Fred Edwards voting against. Motion failed. George Ragsdale stated he was uncomfortable with the timing being so tight. Said he would be more than happy to continue a briefing after the meeting if they could vote on the changes that they had in front of them with the understanding it would be revisited and possibly propose additional amendments. 4 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Motion and Second: George Ragsdale made a motion to approve the changes that have been proposed which he believed were only two words and then after the meeting was adjo urned have additional discussion about possible additional amendments prior to the next briefing. Curtis Mills seconded the motion for discussion. Curtis Mills asked the Chair abo ut hi s concerns. Said he was a little uncomfortable with the idea of sending forward two definitions of landsc ape to the Council and not sure if there was a good reason for that. Thought this set of changes were very simp le and obvious and clearly beneficial. Asked the Chair if he was concerned about separat in g the issues. Chair Paul Moore stated he did not have a problem with the two simple word changes because it did help the definition, but he wante d to have a deeper discussion regarding what a landscape business really is and what is more of a horticulture business. He said he was fine with separating, but felt more discussion was needed to address his concerns. Stated he was fine with going ahead with George's motion. Cary Schlenke asked the Chair about a letter th at came to the gro up and indicated all of the members did not receive a copy. Asked Staff Robyn MacDonald if she could make a copy for everyone to review. Paul Hackman said he did not know why they just could not have the dialo g right now and then decide if they could tonight. Chair Paul Moore asked if there was a way to suspend the meetin g. Staff Robyn MacDonald said yes, they could make a motion. Chair Paul Moore stated just for about 5 minutes to have an off-the-record discussion and then reconvene. Staff Robyn MacDonald said that any meeting of the 7 of them was public an d the public present could stay and li sten. Curtis Mills Uokingly) said maybe we could just ask Carol Lane to step outside. The Comm ission and Carol Lane lau ghed. Please note, Carol Lane was not asked to leave the meeting and she was present for the entir e discus sion. Curti s only made th e suggestion in jest. Staff Robyn MacDonald advise d the Commission that no matter what they do , the public is invited. Chair Paul Moore stated one of the things that concerned him for consideration. He indicated they are trying to be a friendly city in which to conduct business for the gain and the betterment of the city and citizens. He said they have been pretty forward with their interpretation of the use permit for landscape bu sinesses and have had some things out there in the confines of the city council meetings that have been approved that h e thought in the lon g tenn may be regretted. 5 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Stated that he thought the y were becoming an eas y mark for landscape businesses that were operating a more commercial business as the definition reads currently. Concerns about more residential than pasture land areas and the number of vehicles and trucks that were not necessarily horticultural in nature. Thought the intention was for the use of AG-1 land , and probably more appropriate for applicant to come forward with perhaps a C-1 application. This was the reason he did not want to discuss outside of a briefing meeting. He told the Commission and Staff that his reason for an off-the-record discu ssion was because he did not want to risk making any comment that may be construed as offensive to landscaping businesses . He was taking offense to some of the landscape business approvals and their locations that had been previously passed with the more general interpretation available to them today . George Ragsdale stated he thought the Chair was saying the issue was not the definition , but that the fact that things were being approved that he did not think should be approved . He said the only purpose of the definition was to define those things that have to be considered for approval that are not just granted as a right. Thought the Chair was talking about the ones that had been considered and approved. Stated he thought they should perhaps be looking at the ordinance where it talks about what is allowab le. Did not believe the definitions itself would do that. Chair Paul Moore stated this was another reason he wanted to have the discus sion in a briefing meeting rather than on-the-record. Lengthy discussion about the definitions and what they are for. Curtis Mills stated he would be okay if the Chair felt that strongly about it if they suspend the meeting and if the only difference was the recording stopped , but the meeting remained public , he would be fine with that and they could continue to talk about it. Asked staff if that was administratively acceptable if it was a matter of sensiti ve material perhaps being misinterpreted by someone. Staff Robyn MacDonald said that would be acceptable to suspend the meeting if the Commission agreed. Chair Paul Moore stated there was a motion on the floor that needed to go forward . He stated he was okay with moving forwarded with the changes as George stated. George Ragsdale stated it did not make any sense to vote on the current motion at this time. He said he would lik e to withdraw the motion . Chair Paul Moore stated the Commission would have to vote on the withdrawing of George Ragsdale motion. Vote: 7-0. There was no further discussion. Motion unanimously carried and motion was withdrawn . 6 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Chair Paul Moore asked if the Commission members wou ld be willing to suspend the meeting for about 10 minutes to have a briefing discussion and then reconvene the meeting to continue with the agenda . Motion and Second: Jennifer Fletcher made a motion to suspend the meeting for a period of not more than 10 minutes. Seconded by Paul Hackman . There was no further discussion. Vote: 7-0 . Motion unanimously carried. Cary Sc hlenke stated she wanted to take a few moments before recessing for the Commission to be able to read the letter that some of the members had not received a copy of it. Chair Paul Moore suspended the meeting at 7:30 p.m. MEETING WAS SUSPENDED AND COMMISSION HAD DISCUSSION OFF OF THE RECORD FOR 30 MINUTES -THE PUBLIC REMAINED DURING OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION. Chair Paul Moore asked Staff if they needed a motion to reconvene the meeting. Staff Robyn MacDonald stated the Commission may want to open public record for anyone who may wish to speak and did not believe a motion was necessary to reconvene. Chair Paul Moore reconvened the meeting at 8:00 p.m. and the meeting commenced being recorded on the record. The Chair asked Carol Lane if she had any comment on RZ08-01, the Landscape Business. Public Comment: Carol Lane, 14890 East Bluff Road, Milton, GA Stated that she agreed that AG-1 should be for growing the plants and making it more horticultural and having some retail or delivery. Said that in her neighborhood there are a lot of landscape businesses and they have trucks and equipment and they do not sell plants or grow trees , but just come to do service. Agreed that a C-1 for those businesses would be more appropriate. Motion and Second: Fred Edwards moved to close Public Comment. Paul Hackman seconded the motion. There was no discussion. Vote: 7-0 . Motion unanimously carried. Public Comment was closed. 7 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Chair Paul Moore stated after short bri efi n g, the Commission realizes that their objective is pretty much the same, but unsure as to ho w to get there. The Commission wants to ensure th at they do a better job by defining land scape businesses for the purposes of the Milton Zoning Ordinance to ensure that they are a city that is sensitive to the need for the landscaping service here. The Commission wants to make certain that they come forward for the appropriate consideration in front of City Council and the Planning Commission for when they are asking to conduct their business from a particular site as their base location. Need to carefull y consider whether should be AG-1 or C-1 purpose. Curtis Mills stated that a maintenance oriented land scape busine ss is not in his mind an AG-1 function. All of the functions of their business are performed elsewhere. Most landscape companies do both in stallation and maintenance. If a large part of their bu siness is maintenance oriented, that would be business commercial and not AG-1. We need to make sure that they are agriculturally based and not businesses where services are provided elsewhere or C-1 zoning. Cary Schlenke asked Staff abo ut location for some of the us es and if there was a place in the zoning where they could limit the size and sco pe of the business where they could not grow too large. Could the y limit the amount of revenue or employees? Staff Robyn MacDonald stated that any use permit is tied to the square footage of the footprint of the building. If a land scape bu siness wanted to expand , they would have to come back before us and it becomes a new petition. She stated they might in th e use permit put in a condition that there wi ll not be any land scape business within 1000 feet or 2000 feet if you fe lt they were popping up everywhere . She did not fee l they could regulate the number of employees or trucks. Robyn stated that she thought for toni ght's meeting the Commission should just go ahead and approve the minimal changes that hav e been proposed and talked abo ut just to keep everything tight for no w to make sure they can enforce the landscape business us e permit. She stated she would need to do so me additional research regarding the definitions. She told the Commission that Tom Wilson was always of the beli ef that it was better to stay more general with the definitions that super defined as that gives us a better legal standing than being too specific. Robyn stated if the Commission wanted to exclude having land scap e bu sinesses having the trucks an d people coming back and forth out of AG-1 that would be so mething they could look at. Cary Schlenke stated she was not su ggestin g that as there are certain place s that that would make se n se . Staff Robyn MacDonald said she hop ed when they look at the Comp Plan and the different use s within the city that they might define true AG-1 agricultural versus rural residential. It may be that the rural residential would exclude these landscaping businesses. 8 Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Chair Paul Moore said it would be good if they could break the definition into something different. He said a lot of things have been lumped under landscaping businesses , but there is a difference between lawn care and landscape business . He said as long as they have to come forward for consideration . Additional Board Discussion about criteria for coming in for use permits. Paul Hackman asked George Ragsdale about what he meant by changing the zoning ordinance to state is what not allowed. George Ragsdale stated that in the ordinance there were some things that are allowed by right under a particular zoning classification and they do not have to come forward for anything. Some of the things under this definition like the way it is worded now or was worded does not require it coming forward for approval. He stated that for example, if the Commission wants to preclude certain things like a Landscape Business in AG-1, it has to be done by going back and changing the zoning ordinance to state it is not allowed in AG-1 and is allowed in C-1. There may be multiple definitions for landscape business , nurseries , etc . Some may be allowed in some places and some not. Staff Robyn MacDonald said that under the home based business ordinance, if it is just a single person who lives on the property who stores his equipment in the garage and has his office , he can run his landscape business as long as he does not employ people outside of his home. Chair Paul Moore stated after all the discussion this evening, that he was pleased that the Commission found a way to move forward with appro v ing at least the first step this evening and that the discussion will continue for the greater picture at their next briefing meeting. Staff Robyn MacDonald clarified that this meant leaving it for this rotation and then picking up after the April meeting and not at the next meeting , as that agenda will be large and these are major changes . She said to make the small change and forward to city council and then approve that and then at the next rotation when she has the other ordinance changes, it can be brought up again. She said she thought 6 days was too shmi of a time and it was too important not to have council discuss it at their work session so they are not blind-sighted and keep them in the loop. George Ragsdale stated at the April briefing meetin g. Curtis Mills suggested possible having the Commission have an additional meeting for the sole purpose of focusing on this topic. Cary Sch lenke stated she agreed with Curtis and did not want to risk tagging this on to the next agenda that has the Highway 9 height restrictions on it. Paul Hackman stated he thou ght it was also important to find out what the citi zens of Milton want. He said the y were assuming this is what they want. He thought it might be a good idea to 9 . Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 have a group assembled that may give the Commission input, as there are probably a lot of opinions out there on this topic. Chair Paul Moore agreed with perhaps having another briefing on this matter, but did not want to go more than one cycle after the April cycle. Staff Robyn MacDonald said that was when her suggestion was to put it back to the council work session. At least that would be a step forward and there is usually good pubic participation in addition to it being on the agenda and it being advertised. The work session is usually the second week, but because of Spring Break the meetings have been pushed. The work session will now be April 21st and they are already pretty heavy on that agenda, so it may be in May. Fred Edwards stated they need to be prepared before they went to a work shop with council. If not, they will drag this on. He stated that have to have a plan to go to the work shop and tell them that this is what we believe needs to be changed. George Ragsdale stated he would make a motion. Motion and Second: George Ragsdale moved to approve the changes as proposed in the definition of landscaping businesses included in Section 3.3.12 of the City of Milton Zoning Ordinance, to delete the word "and" in two places on the third line and replace both of them with the word "or" and schedule a special meeting between now and the next Planning Commission meeting to take on this issue and develop a plan. Curtis Mills seconded the motion. There was no further discussion. Vote: 7-0. Motion unanimously carried. George Ragsdale asked that somebody besides him attempt to put together that meeting, he would be happy to put together an agenda and work plan for that meeting. Chair Paul Moore stated he would start the circulation of an email tomorrow to schedule a meeting. Chair Paul Moore called the next agenda item , RZ0S-02 to amend Article 28, Rezoning and Other Amendment Procedures in the City of Milton Zoning Ordinance. Chair Paul Moore opened it up for public comment. There was none. Motion and Second: Fred Edwards moved to close public comment. Paul Hackman seconded the motion. There was no discussion. Vote: 7-0. Motion unanimously carried and public comment was closed. Chair Paul Moore stated this item was discussed in their briefing prior to the meeting tonight. • Planning Commission Regular Meeting Tuesday, March 25, 2008 Motion and Second: George Ragsdale moved to defer a vote on this item until the next Planning Commission meeting when they would have the opportunity to see the revi sed lan guage based on the Commission's di scuss ion this evening. Paul Hackman seconded the motion. No further discussion. Vote: 7-0. Motion unanimously carried . ADJOURNMENT: Chair Paul Moore called for a motion to adjourn. Motion and Second: Paul Hackman moved to adjourn the meeting. Cary Schlenke seconded the motion. There was no further di sc u ss ion . Vote : 7-0 . Motion unanimously carried and meeting was adjourned. Meeting adjourned at 7:40 p.m. Francesca Ivie City Clerk's Office Paul Moore , Chairman Planning Commis sion 11