HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - CC - 10/19/2020Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council
Monday, October 19, 2020 at 6:00 pm
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CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Lockwood: I'd like to call the Regular Meeting of the Milton City Council for
Monday, October 19, 2020 to order. The city strongly recommends
that you review tonight's agenda carefully, and if you wish to
speak on any item on the agenda, please bring your comment card
to the clerk as soon as possible. While the Milton rules allow a
speaker to turn in their comment card up until the clerk calls the
agenda item, once the agenda item is called, no more comment
cards can be accepted. If the city clerk will please call roll and
make general announcements.
City Clerk: Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'll be happy to call roll for the
October 19, 2020 regular meeting. I would like to remind those in
attendance to please silence all cell phones at this time. Those
attending the meeting who would like to make a public comment,
you are required to complete a public comments card prior to
speaking on the item. Your comment card must be presented to the
city clerk prior to the agenda item being called. All speakers,
please identify yourself by name, address, and organization before
beginning your comment. If you are representing an organization,
an affidavit is required stating you have the authority to speak on
behalf of that organization.
Please review tonight's agenda, and if you would like to make a
public comment, please bring your comment card to me now.
Demonstration of any sort within the chamber is prohibited. Please
refrain from any applause, cheering, booing, outbursts, or dialog
with any person speaking. Anyone in violation will be asked to
leave. As I call roll this evening, please confirm your attendance.
Mayor Joe Lockwood.
Mayor Lockwood: Here.
City Clerk: Council Member Rick Mohrig.
Rick: Here.
City Clerk: Council Member Peyton Jamison.
Peyton: Here.
City Clerk: Council Member Carol Cookerly.
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Monday, October 19, 2020 at 6:00 pm
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Carol: Here.
City Clerk: Council Member Joe Longoria.
Joe: Here.
City Clerk: And Council Member Paul Moore.
Paul: Here.
City Clerk: For the record, Council Member Laura Bentley is absent. Would
everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance?
Councilmembers Present: Mayor Joe Lockwood, Councilmember Peyton
Jamison, Councilmember Carol Cookery, Councilmember Joe Longoria and
Councilmember Rick Mohrig.
Councilmembers Absent: Councilmember Laura Bentley.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (Led by Mayor Joe Lockwood)
All: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and
to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Mayor Lockwood: I want to welcome everyone and thank you for being here tonight.
Now, I'll ask the city clerk to sound the next item which is
Approval of the Meeting Agenda.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
City Clerk: The next item is Approval of the Meeting Agenda (Agenda Item
No. 20-287).
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Does anybody have any changes or comments on the
agenda? If not, I'll ask for a motion.
Rick: Mr. Mayor, I make motion that we approve the meeting agenda as
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Monday, October 19, 2020 at 6:00 pm
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prepared.
Paul: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. We have a motion for approval from Council Member
Mohrig with a second from Council Member Moore. All in favor,
please say, 'Aye'.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: It's unanimous. Okay. Next item is Public Comment. Do we have
any general public comment?
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Mohrig moved to approve the
meeting agenda. Councilmember Moore seconded the motion.
The motion passed (6-0). Councilmember Bentley was absent from
the meeting.
PUBLIC COMMENT (None)
City Clerk: I have not been given a card. Stacie, do you have any?
Stacie: No, sir.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. All right. We will move on then to the Consent Agenda if
the clerk would please read the Consent Agenda items?
CONSENT AGENDA
City Clerk: Our first item is approval of the September 9, 2020 regular City
Council meeting minutes (Agenda Item No. 20-288). Our next
item is an approval of a task order between the City of Milton and
BM&K, P.C. to provide construction inspection for the Hopewell
Road at Thompson Road and Hopewell Road at Hamby Road
intersection projects (Agenda Item No. 20-289). Our third item is
approval of a task order between the City of Milton and BM&K,
P.C. to provide pre-construction and pre-acquisition services for
Morris Road widening and Big Creek Greenway Trail connection
projects (Agenda Item No. 20-290).
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Monday, October 19, 2020 at 6:00 pm
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Our next item is an approval of a task order between the City of
Milton and BM&K, P.C. to provide construction inspection for the
Saddlesprings Drive culvert repair project (Agenda Item No. 20-
291). Our fifth item is an approval of a Consent to Assumption
Agreement between the City of Milton and Granicus, LLC for the
renewal of the subscription agreement (Agenda Item No. 20-292).
Our next item is approval of a construction services agreement
between the City of Milton and Prime Contractors, Inc. for interior
remodeling of Fire Station 43’s training room and support services
offices (Agenda Item No. 20-293).
Our seventh item is approval of a Change Order #2 to the
agreement between the City of Milton and AppZoro Technologies,
Inc. to finish the ongoing design and development of the
smartphone application for the city’s Smart Communities Grant
Project - Walking School Bus (Agenda Item No. 20-294). Our next
item is approval to amend the agreement between the City of
Milton and Voya Retirement Insurance and Annuity Company to
allow a single general-purpose loan for the employee’s 401 (a)
account (Agenda Item No. 20-295).
Our ninth and final item on the Consent Agenda is approval of
subdivision plats and revision. The name of the development is
Caleb Negron Property 2095 & 2098 Birmingham Road. It's Land
Lot 406 District 2, Section 2. It's a minor plat combining two
parcels into one single-family residential lot with a total acre of
8.81 acres and the density is 0.113 lots/acre -
Mayor Lockwood: Okay.
City Clerk: - (Agenda Item No. 20-296).
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you. Do I have a motion on the Consent Agenda?
Joe: Mayor, I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as read.
Carol: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I've got a motion from Council Member Longoria with a
second from Council Member Cookerly. All in favor, please say,
'Aye'.
All: Aye.
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Mayor Lockwood: Any opposed? That's unanimous. So, we'll move on to Reports and
Presentations. So, Tammy, if you will please sound the first item.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Longoria moved to approve the
Consent Agenda. Councilmember Cookerly seconded the
motion. The motion passed (6-0). Councilmember Bentley was
absent from the meeting.
REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS
1. Presentation of Police Fleet Management Program.
(Rich Austin, Police Chief)
Tammy: That item is Presentation of Police Fleet Management Program,
Police Chief, Rich Austin.
Chief Austin: Greetings, Mayor, Members of Council. For a few months now,
our staff has been looking into a fleet management model that a
few of our neighboring jurisdictions are utilizing that we think may
bring some significant cost savings to our city. Tonight, we have
with us from Enterprise Fleet Management, Mike Larsen, Rachel
McGirr, and Mark Torre. We've been working with their team to
conduct some rather extensive analysis of our fleet looking for
opportunities to reduce our expenditures and maximize our city's
motor vehicle assets while continuing to maintain a very highly
dependable fleet.
Tonight, the team is going to present the Enterprise Model for
Fleet Management and just discuss a bit about how their program
might be beneficial to the City of Milton. The goal of tonight's
presentation is simply to provide Council with some detailed
information as staff might be bringing this idea back to you all in
the near future for further consideration. And with that, I'll turn the
floor over to the Enterprise Fleet Management team, Rachel
McGirr, Mark Torre, and Mike Larkins. Thank you.
Mike: Good evening.
All: Good evening.
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Mike: How are y'all this evening?
All: Good.
All: Well.
Mike: I hope that you and your families are all doing well during this
uncertain time. So, once again, thank you Chief for the
introduction. My name is Mike Larkins. I'm with Enterprise Fleet
Management. Yes, that name does ring a bell, just like normal
Enterprise you see on almost every corner as a rental car company.
Funny enough, Enterprise Rent-A-Car company, actually, started
as a fleet management company a long time ago, about 63 years to
be exact. Our goal is - specifically, our goal this evening is
working with cities and counties across the State of the Georgia
and the United States to help identify the total cost of ownership
and the lowest cost of ownership for the fleet within each city.
What we do is we understand and truly evaluate the numbers,
really, the maintenance numbers, the fuel numbers, how much the
annual spend is for vehicles, what's the average age of the vehicle
within that fleet, what you're - how you're buying the vehicle, and
then, most importantly, how you're selling the vehicle on the
backside. Really, within that situation, what we've identified
wholly is vehicles being held longer, getting less money on the
backside for the vehicle at resale, and really, in between, having
higher operating costs like fuel and maintenance.
With your fleet, specifically, we've identified a few areas of
opportunity to create a partnership with Enterprise Fleet
Management, lower the total cost of owning and operating the
vehicles in your fleet, reduce the total downtime, reduce the
operating expenses such as excess maintenance, excess fuel costs
due to fuel degradation. And the biggest piece that a lot of people
miss out on is really maximize the resale on the backside for that
vehicle, lowering the total cost of owning and operating vehicles in
your fleet. I think, we have a presentation that's got a model on it.
Rachel: Yep. Here ya go.
Rachel: Yeah, you can just -
Mike: All right. So, what we've really identified, within the vehicle's in
your fleet, is - and we took a really deep dive in both the entire
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fleet from the City of Milton and the fleet for just the police
department, specifically. This presentation, specifically, relates to
the police department vehicles of 22 vehicles of a light and
medium duty fleet or seven years of age or older. That 5.7 years is
the current average age of the fleet, meaning it would take about 9
1/2 years to completely refresh or go through the entire fleet of
vehicles in the police department. If we are to reduce the average
age of the vehicles in that fleet by just a five-year hold for those
vehicles, it could produce savings by maximizing on the operating
costs and the resale on the backside. It could produce savings for
the City of Milton an excess of $368,000.
Really, the results are, our goal is to not create a partnership that
lasts one year, but it's to create a partnership where we identify
cost savings opportunities, run a safer, newer fleet for the city, and
it's a partnership that is long lasting. So, we can truly work
together to keep the people of the city, or that work for the city, in
safer vehicles while benefiting the city financially. Mark, I'll let
you -
Mark: Good evening everyone. My name is Mark Torre. I'm an Account
Manager at Enterprise Fleet Management. I work with about 14
different state government entities across the State of Georgia. I
work with Cherokee County, City of Covington, just to name a few
[inaudible] as well. Also, I work with - for Georgia Forestry
Commission with all their fleet of vehicles. My job is really to
evaluate their fleet of vehicles yearly, really putting what - with the
plan that we put in place for the city and really sticking to that
plan. Because a lot of times, especially, with the COVID and how
things are right now with budgets, the first thing you think about is,
hey, how can we save money? Well, that's really what my job is,
for those cities and counties to really help them save money.
The fleet analysis that we put together for you is really a five-year
model in this example. We usually do a ten-year model, but this is
five-year example just because that's more of a fine-tuned, dialed
down version. So, if you look on the left side, the current fleet of
vehicles is 65 vehicles in fleet. The proposed fleet, we feel like we
may have some additional growth in the next five years, so the
proposed fleet is 67 vehicles. The current cycle right now, nine
years to cycle out of all your vehicles. The proposed cycle with
Enterprise Fleet Management - that would be five years, going
from a nine-year to a five-year cycle.
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Since our model, as far as the maintenance, when we got your
maintenance number, it looks like it was about $120 per month per
vehicle. With our fixed and budgeted maintenance program, we
feel we could - we have the proposed maintenance at $70 per
vehicle. And then, as far as the price per gallon, average national
price per gallon $2.15 as far as the gas is concerned. But I want to
keep this really at a high-level perspective for you guys. And
Mike, you can jump in if you want. But really, the yellow line at
the top here is what you guys are currently doing today. So, right
now, we're - we have about seven vehicles that we need yearly
currently in the fleet. We own about 6 1/2 vehicles. But what we're
trying to do is really get you guys on a rotation. So, right now, we
feel based off the six or the seven needs that you guys have, you're
spending $275,000 in cash per year on those police vehicles. What
we're proposing is going away from the cash model and helping
you guys do more with less with the Enterprise Fleet Management
model.
The biggest things in police vehicles, in my experience so far, has
been the equipment that goes in those vehicles is very expensive.
So, how do we retain that and also retain the equity in those
vehicles? Well, we need to get them out of them a lot quicker than
what we're doing currently, because the models change a lot. The
models change - by the time you guys change your fleet vehicle
out, the models, probably, already changed. So, therefore, we need
to, probably, take advantage of that a little bit quicker than what
we're doing now.
So, really what we're doing is moving buckets around. So, on the
goal line, your maintenance is $93,600 based off of last year's
budget from what we got. And then, also, the fuel budget was
$259,935 for total fleet budget of $628,000 of fleet budget. So,
what - if you go down to the 2021 line, what our plan would be for
you guys is instead of annual needs at seven or seven per year,
what we'd be doing is also doing six per - or annual needs at six in
2021, 14 in 2022. But what that does is, we're moving buckets
around. Instead of purchasing vehicles at $275,000, we are now
getting into six leased vehicles at $59,768. So, that's Part 1 of
showing how we can show savings as far as the police vehicles are
concerned.
Also, we have vehicles, older vehicles in the fleet that a lot of
times when we come in contact with cities and counties, the
biggest thing you guys miss out on is the resale aspect of the
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vehicle. What Enterprise has proved through the model that we
have built through our rent-a-car side, is that we can buy for low
and sell for high. That is how Enterprise has been so successful
over 63 years. What we're trying to do is, we're trying to take that
model and hand it over to the government sector, because you guys
do such a good job of buying vehicles. Well, if you guys do such a
good job just like Enterprise Rent-A-Car does of buying vehicles,
why not take advantage of the resale market?
The resale market is - especially, right now with COVID-19,
manufacturers are shut down for about 3 1/2 month. So, right now,
we're seeing an - we're seeing less and less vehicles at a
dealership’s lot. Therefore, we are approaching cities and counties,
myself, for example, City of Covington, I just approached them.
They've been a customer of ours for about almost two years. So,
they had pickup trucks in their fleet. What we're doing is, after 14
months, they're able to get out of nine pickup trucks, and we're
able to get them $66,000 in equity in those nine pickup trucks, and
roll that into brand new vehicles which not only either lowers your
cash outlay per month, or we can put that back in the general
funds. Those are the two ways we can do that.
But our job is really just to help evaluate the fleet, help you guys
retain the equity in the vehicles which you have, because at the end
of the day, it's a depreciating asset. You want to make sure you're
taking advantage of the equity that you guys have and really roll
that in there. But also, what does that cause? Because we're adding
six brand new vehicles in, we're getting out of six old vehicles
now. That's six old vehicles going out of the fleet. Not only are we
going to help our operational costs with fuel and maintenance
costs, we're also going to lower our total fleet budget. So, we're
predicting in the first year of lowering that or a net cash positive of
$266,271 and that's because, we're getting out of older vehicles
that are probably the highest cost and maintenance costs. And also,
the highest cost in fuel costs, because the fuel degradation, because
we have vehicles that are eight years older, eight years or older out
there in the fleet.
Also, on top of that, we want to make sure that these guys are
driving in safe vehicles. At the end of the day, the police officer is
extremely important, and we want to make sure that they are
driving around in safe vehicles. And if we have eight to ten-year-
old vehicles out there, can you really say that might be the safest
vehicle that that person can be in? So, with us giving you guys a
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proactive replacement plan, allows not only for you guys to have
less costs, but also allows you guys to have a safer vehicle out
there on the road, and, also, be able to save the city money which
is really the most important part. [inaudible] [00:20:38]
Mike: Yeah, I think that - so, you see a five-year model I had in front of
you. Oftentimes, we'll show a five-year model, a ten-year model,
but the important piece isn't necessarily Day 1 of the partnership,
it's after year one, after year two, year five, year ten. Because that's
the true testament of the value of the partnership, right? And so, at
the end of the day, what we really hope to accomplish and to
achieve by showing the model, is not only the plan is effective and
lowers the average age of the vehicles of your fleet, but it's
sustainable. It's a plan that is sustainable over time.
We're a company that doesn't create partnerships that lasts for six
months or one year, we want long-lasting partnerships. So, that's
why she shows this model over five years. But I'm confident, by
lowering the average age of the vehicles in the fleet, by constantly
leveraging Enterprise Fleet Management as a partner, like Mark
said, you'll have all of the - we'll call it the civilians as well as the
employees of the city in safer vehicles while keeping them at a
lowest cost of ownership. Any questions?
Mayor Lockwood: I have a question.
Mike: Yes sir.
Mayor Lockwood: So, some of our neighboring cities or counties are you guys
working with - I think I understand Roswell -
Mike: Yes, sir.
Mayor Lockwood: So, how is that - how long has that contract or partnership -
Mike: So, Roswell, that partnership began - I like to think that the
partnership begins when we first start talking, because I feel like
all the work really goes in the beginning, right.
Mayor Lockwood: Mm-hmm.
Mike: So, the partnership - I feel like, we were fully executed about a
year and a half now, maybe two years ago now. We're on second,
we're in the talks of the third round of orders for them. And what's
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interesting is, every single city we ever communicate with has
different goals and objectives. And the great thing about a
partnership with us is, we can help achieve really any of it.
And so, to give you an example, Roswell had a goal of
replenishing their equipment replacement fund from Day 1. And
so, we utilized the previous fiscal year vehicle orders to help them
cash out on the current equity in those. So, we cashed that out.
They were able to completely replenish it; their vehicle
replacement funds. They lowered the average age of the vehicles in
their fleet from about six years, maybe six years and change to
about 4 1/2. Their main objective was to be on a preventative
maintenance only program, because they found that most of their
vehicles, upwards of 95,000 miles and greater, spent more time in
the shop. I think, all of us understand that vehicles with higher
mileage are more at risk. So, the Roswell partnership is going
great. We work really well with all those departments that are
there. And I imagine that the fleet will be 100% penetrated in the
next two years, we'll just say.
Carol: I have a –
Mayor Lockwood: Carol.
Carol: - a couple of questions. So, how big is this aspect of Enterprise?
Mike: Yep. So, we actually - it's funny you ask that, because today, I got
an email that we just delivered our 400,000th vehicle. So, to
answer that question, we have 400,000 vehicles on the road with
government entities alone.
Carol: In what time frame?
Mike: Over the last - well, we started working with government a long
time ago, because we started - we partnered with the State of
Georgia in 2011. I say that's a long time ago, almost 10 years ago.
So - and we were working with government prior to that. So, it's a
safe assumption, without giving finite details, for 10 years.
Carol: You mentioned fixed maintenance costs, and it could have been
my inability to follow on that, but are those fixed maintenance
costs on your side or on our side? Are we held to a fixed
maintenance schedule?
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Mike: So, we recommend following manufacturer recommendations for
maintenance.
Carol: Mm-hmm.
Mike: At the end of the day, everything that you want to do, you can do.
What that really means is, our only job is to make
recommendations and provide value based on our 2.2 million
vehicles on the road. But to go back into the maintenance piece,
there are several different maintenance options. Whether it’s a
fixed maintenance program which covers everything from the
windshield wiper blades to the engine falling out of the vehicle, to
a pass-through maintenance program, to no maintenance program
at all. You can do anything that the city feels comfortable doing.
I will add the caveat that the emergency response vehicles are only
eligible for the pass-through only because they are a high-risk
vehicle. So, we see them as a high-risk vehicle for putting a
maintenance program on it, but they still have the ability to go to
any maintenance shop anywhere, have that vehicle maintained and
overseen by ASC Certified Tech, but most importantly, leverage
Enterprise size of purchasing power for the rates.
Carol: Okay. But you're not trying to create that as a profit center for
Enterprise?
Mike: No. That - everything that we do and everything that we have is à
la carte.
Carol: Okay. And my last question is -
Mike: Yes, ma'am.
Carol: - if it's not working and a municipality wants out of the program,
what's the out clause?
Mike: Oh, it's actually great. I think you'll love it. In 1957, when our
owner created the company, he said that we have to earn our
business every single day. So, what I mean by that is, there is no
commitment. There is no contract. There is a funding mechanism,
right -
Carol: Mm-hmm.
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Mike: - for funding. But there is no contract to be partners with
Enterprise. If you say, in Week 1, it's not working out, and you
want to fire us, by all means, fire us. We've never had that happen
– let me knock on wood - but it's our job. Everything about what
we do is - and this might be surprising, but probably a pleasant
surprise, everything that we do is based on customer service. And
what I mean by that is, if we're not providing exceptional service,
we expect you to fire us. And so, we're great in our customer
service the way that we actually progress in our careers is even
graded on service. So, I can't stand here in front of you and tell you
things that are not true, because I wouldn't be following the values
and the guidelines of our company.
Carol: Okay. Well, thank you.
Mike: Yes, ma'am.
Carol: [Inaudible - crosstalk] [00:26:41] presentation.
Mayor Lockwood: Peyton.
Peyton: On the maintenance, I know you said a proposed $70 maintenance.
So, what doesn't that include?
Mike: So, when we take the maintenance from a $120 average to a $70
average, I know in the model – a model is a number, right. So, it
seems like it's a hard number. It's, essentially, an algorithm that we
use by taking the older vehicles out of the fleet and replacing them
with the newer vehicles. But it's funny enough, $70 is an average
monthly maintenance cost for our fixed budgeted program. And
that really includes everything. The only thing it does not include
is our two wear items, because it's - they're very predictable, and
those are tires and brakes.
Peyton: Got it. And you would assume that $120 a month on our end
includes tires and brakes?
Mike: So, the $120 a month on your end came from an actual number -
did it have tires and brakes on that?
Rachel: I think it did.
Mike: Okay. So, it would have.
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Peyton: That's, kind of, what I was assuming. And I guess, the only other
thing is, I would like to see a ten-year plan.
Mike: Okay.
Peyton: That's just me, because I see those numbers start going down,
down, and down. And I'm assuming in year 25, I guess, was it year
25, that's $601,000, that's lease payments to you, correct? That's a
lease, that's an annual lease payment, correct?
Mike: Correct.
Peyton: 67 vehicles?
Mike: That's correct.
Peyton: Okay.
Mike: So, one of the big areas we focus on - because I see the direction
that your question is going. One of the big areas we focus on -
while yes, the lease bucket or the - we'll just call it the capital
bucket -
Peyton: Right.
Mike: - is going up, the fleet budget overall - our goal is - 'cause while
the acquisition side does have a rise, because we're replacing
vehicles sooner.
Peyton: Right.
Mike: Right. I think - I would think that we all would agree that newer
vehicles cost less to maintain. So, while the acquisition bucket
rises in cost, the maintenance bucket - I'm just using bucket -
Peyton: Correct.
Mike: - as an analogy - the maintenance bucket will reduce, because we
have less of those unpredictable repairs which any of the
unpredictable repairs tend to cost a lot, right. And then, naturally,
our fuel economy is better. I mean, even pickup trucks, it's wild to
think that pickup truck nowadays get 22 miles per gallon when five
years ago, they got 12. You know, so just fuel economy, in
general. So, we anticipate, and we've seen, just through our
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relationships currently, all of those costs to lower. So, all of the
operating costs throughout the year that you have, you can
anticipate those driving downwards, but then on the big piece is on
the backside really capturing the equity in the vehicles that flatten
out that fleet budget or, at least, get you a savings to where you are
today.
Peyton: Thank you.
Mike: But we can put together the ten-year model for you. Absolutely.
Peyton: Thanks.
Mayor Lockwood: Joe.
Joe: So, we've got not contract that we have to sign with you - you guys
are willing to accept us telling you to get out of our lives Day 2, if
that happens.
Mike: Day 2.
Joe: So, the touch points of this engagement, on - let's just say, a typical
customer of yours, Day 1, do you come in and weigh or assess the
vehicles? It sounds like you've done a certain amount of that
already. Is there an acquisition that occurs immediately, or is this a
rolling, kind of, a thing that as the cars or fleet vehicles come up
for replacement, that's when you get involved and you engage at
that point? Because I'm having [inaudible - crosstalk] [00:30:08].
Mike: Right, so I want to ask - I want to answer a couple of things. The
first one, there is a contract, but it is a contract that you can get out
of at any moment. It's a Master Lease Agreement. Essentially, it
says you're going to ensure the vehicles, pay the payments -
Joe: Right.
Mike: - things like that, right.
Joe: It’s understood.
Mike: So, I want to make sure I was clear on that. But when it comes to
the relationship itself, I'm really glad you asked that question.
Because the reason I have Mark here today, the reason Rachel is
here today, and there are others who cannot be here today, they
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are, actually, your account team. And we don't come to you and
say, hey, congratulations, thank you for the partnership, get these
vehicles, we'll see you in a year, we'll see you in five years. That's
not what we want to do. We, essentially, have an implementation
of the program. And while we make recommendations of what the
average age or the average cycle should look like, you can still set
the plan that makes the most sense for you.
We're - all we do is follow the numbers and present the numbers.
And so, really the way that works - let's just say that we went with
the plan that's on the screen today that shows six vehicles in year
one. If we went with that plan, we've already spec'd all those out,
so we have all that information through the conversations we've
been having, we would get those vehicles on order, right. We want
to make sure we get in line, emergency response vehicles are hot
commodities, right. And so, we would get those vehicles on order.
In the meantime, we would be doing Account Team introductions
to the right personnel to make sure they know who Mark is, they
know who Rachel is, and they know who our Account Fleet
Coordinator is, but then, also, we would be going over all of the
other tools that are available to you at your disposal, the website
that houses, that could house your entire fleet and its data. The -
you'll have an invoice review, there are mobile apps that are
available for all of your drivers.
Joe: So, what you're saying is, it’s a blended program for a certain
period of time as we get out of the vehicles that we're in today and
replace them with vehicles that you guys will provide?
Mike: Correct. Correct. I would never ask you to come replace a vehicle
that's a year old, right. It's, definitely, a blended program. For
instance, Mark and I were talking earlier, the Cherokee County,
they've been a customer for about four years. They are about - we
have about 75% of their fleet has made it onto the program. The
remaining 25% has yet to be cycled. And so, we don't bring
everything on, because it doesn't make financial sense.
Joe: Okay. Yeah. The only reason I was asking is because other
companies that offer similar things - but let's say for computers, for
example -
Mike: Right.
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Joe: - hardware. They come in and Day 1, engage on everything. They
assess how old is it, whether it needs to be replaced immediately. If
it doesn't, they will provide you a certain amount of money for that
thing. So, in essence, they, basically, buy all your assets -
Mike: Right.
Joe: - and you end up leasing at Day 1, but that's not what you guys are
proposing.
Mike: That's not what we're proposing, but I'm not saying that people
haven't asked for that in the past. Like I said earlier, there's
anything - you can do anything. But what I've, typically, seen in a
situation like that is, there is a lot of disruption, meaning, like,
we'll just use the computer example. When there's a - when all the
computers are getting turned in and switched over to new, there is
a lot of disruption in daily activities by personnel using those
assets, correct. And so, what I've seen, typically, whenever we
cycle out of an entire fleet up front, there is a lot of disruption,
right. And so, financially, it might not make cost sense. But, like I
said, you can do anything. There's nothing you cannot do. My job,
Mark's job, Rachel's job is to propose the lowest cost of ownership
and what makes the most sense based on your trends.
Joe: Okay.
Mark: And really, my job is to really be a consultant for the city to bring
recommendations to you guys, show you what's the lowest cost of
ownership, and then, make a decision on a per vehicle analysis
whether it makes sense to either replace that vehicle or hold onto
that vehicle. I'm not afraid to go into a meeting and say, hey, based
off of what we're seeing in fuel maintenance costs and what we're
seeing in the resale market, hold onto that vehicle for 12 more
months, because you're going to make more equity. Because, at the
end of the day, it's all about you guys and what you want to do.
Our job is just to put forward the best business recommendation
for you guys and really put that into place.
Mayor Lockwood: Rick.
Rick: So, looking at your example, so by year five, it looks like we'd be
totally out of purchase as far as owning vehicles. It would be total
lease and then, I saw the numbers start to change. That's where I
think it would be good to. Actually. see the ten-year sale, okay,
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when we're totally with you from a lease standpoint -
Mike: Right.
Rick: - what does that do from a cost standpoint -
Mike: Absolutely.
Rick: - extrapolated out?
Mike: Absolutely. I mean, we can anticipate, in six, having greater
equity, because of the newer vehicles, but then it would, obviously,
be – it would flatten out.
Rick: Okay.
Mike: By that time, everything's in, so there's no reason other than more
fuel-efficient vehicles hitting the road, things like that. But it
would flatten, but I'm happy to put together a ten-year for you.
Rick: Okay. And looking at your example, that's, actually, doing an
analysis of our current fleet with police. I was looking at the age of
the vehicles, and again, instead of going at 7 1/2 years, you're
using a five-year replacement.
Mike: Correct.
Rick: So, that's why we see different numbers each year.
Mike: Correct.
Rick: And then, I would assume it starts to stay steady once we get into
years six through ten?
Mike: Correct.
Rick: Okay, thanks.
Mayor Lockwood: Paul.
Paul: I want to build on one of Joe's questions where you guys gave a
pretty good example on the computer turnover as the example and
Joe's question about the acquisition of the entire fleet. I had
experiences at one point in my career with a consumer products
company. We went from individual vehicles to fleet vehicles. And
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they came in and they, actually, acquired the entire fleet, because
there is the backroom part of that that comes off at your books, our
books then, too.
Mike: You're, absolutely, right.
Paul: And if you're not having to do, if you only take, let's say, half of
our vehicles. That means, I've still got headcount managing tires,
you know, oil changes, etc. So, there's, potentially, advantage to
look at that. I'm not encouraging that we reduce our headcount, we
evaluate [inaudible] [00:36:13] play, that's part of our Milton
team today. But there is, potentially, reduced responsibility for
them when you've taken half of the vehicles off our books. I'm
assuming there's a scenario we can measure that, or you can show
us the -
Mike: Absolutely.
Paul: - pros and cons of those too?
Mike: Absolutely. I'm happy to. The only challenging piece will be some
of your emergency response vehicles. And the reason I say that is,
manufacturers - I'm convinced they work with the aftermarket
vendors to change models and change dimensions -
Paul: Yeah, sure.
Mike: - right. And so, if you came to us and said, we want you to acquire
the entire fleet, write us a check for the equity, let's do that to
change things on the books, right. Whatever it is you're looking to
accomplish, -
Paul: Right.
Mike: - we, absolutely, would want to do an evaluation to show you how
that would look if it landed that way.
Paul: Right.
Mike: But -
Paul: Well, in the scenario that I'm contemplating too, you don't,
necessarily, take all of our vehicles out of our existing fleet. It may
be that the 10 additional that are not scheduled for a rotation, right
now, that may be in the next five years, a rotation. You, actually,
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acquire those. They stay as an existing vehicle in our fleet. We're
just leasing it from you rather than us owning it at this point.
Mike: Right. Right.
Paul: So, there's that model to contemplate too. Has that come into play
for you guys?
Mike: It has. So, my example with Roswell, I think, it was in their fiscal
year, ‘17 or ‘18, I recall, off the top of my head, they had acquired
about - it was about $1.2 million in assets. And we valued them –
we, essentially, just took the invoice and the PO, and then, cut
them the check back. Because they were looking very similar.
They wanted to get caught up sooner than later, because they
wanted the managed program to be under one roof, if you will.
Paul: Yeah.
Mike: And so, they accomplished several goals there. We headed to that
direction faster, but then, their - like I said, their equipment
replacement fund got to them dollar amount that they were trying
to get to.
Paul: Yeah, and I can see in – I mean, in the scenario that I've
experienced, that's the only thing I have to go on, obviously. We'd
contemplated some of those scenarios too where we kept part of it
versus turning it all over. And it was, actually, Enterprise -
Mike: Right.
Paul: - that took it over from us. And ultimately, we decided that there
was a lot less confusion about, is this a fleet car, is this -
Mike: Right.
Paul: - a city car, where is it in the maintenance schedule, who's in
charge of it, is it still in-house people that are managing that versus
managing it with a one number you call for Enterprise, etc. So, I
look forward to maybe some more deep dive on those kinds of -
Mike: You can.
Paul: - scenarios and how that plays out for us.
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Mike: Yes, sir.
Paul: There's another part of your presentation I didn't quite follow. That
had to do with the equipment that was in the vehicles. So, when
you do a switch over, it would be [inaudible] [00:38:56] coming
out of our fleet going into your fleet and releasing it back from
you. Does the equipment stay? Does the equipment that's in a
retired vehicle move into the new vehicle?
Mike: So, there are two options. So, Option A is, we sell the vehicle as is,
equipped. Option B is, if that equipment is still up to the latest -
we'll just call it regulations for lack of better terms - then,
potentially, it could be moved from A to B. Let's say, you had a -
I'm not up to speed on the latest equipment, heavy-duty equipment,
right, but let's say, a piece of equipment was $1,500 to $2,000, and
it worked as good as Day 1 on - we'll just call it, year five -
potentially, that could be moved from A to B. At the end of the
day, our job is to continue to show you, okay, if we sold the
vehicle equipped as is, how does it look, and what does it look like
if you move from A to B?
Oftentimes, it makes the most sense to sell that asset as is, maybe
there's a few items that you recover. Obviously, the things that stay
with the vehicle are like radios, computers, things like that. But the
other equipment, the value diminishes dramatically, -
Paul: Yep.
Mike: - but you can gain more value by selling it the way it is to - we'll
just call it an area or a municipality or a county or whoever buys it,
right, who doesn't necessarily have the capital to go get a brand-
new unit.
Paul: Actually, it took me down the path of my next question. That is,
part of my understanding of your model depends - our - the benefit
to us is turning vehicles at the right time.
Mike: Correct.
Paul: So then, the greatest equity comes out of the vehicle. It's going out
of our fleet, and we're getting the right cost of the vehicle coming
into our fleet.
Mike: Correct.
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Paul: So, it's the value - it's the asset management of the outgoing that
I'm interested in. So, you want to sell at the optimal number that
creates the most equity for us. What drives that? Who’s the target
audience for that?
Mike: So, we have an entire department that has about 1,000 individuals,
and that's their only job. And I am able to scratch the surface in
that question today. I've got professionals that work directly for me
that can really get into the weeds and go down the rabbit hole. So,
specifically, enterprise sells about 1.2 million vehicles a year.
Since we have 400,000 units on lease today just to government,
it's, actually, surprising - Mark brought up an example. A lot of
entities do a very short flip, or a short hold, because you have the
benefit of not paying tax at each registration, right. And so, really,
realistically, the equity is always yours without the cost of the
replacing like we have as individuals.
And so, really, what drives it, 1.) market conditions drive
everything, 2.) is, really, time of the year. And so, oftentimes -
because we have two really big times of the year that we look at
ordering and we look at cycling, if you will. And they coincide,
incidentally, with - when the manufacturers open up their banks,
right. And that's just how it works. It gets to basic supply and
demand principles. And when different entities need to cycle, and
then, typically, it's within budget cycles that coincidently in
Georgia, usually run hand-in-hand with each other.
Paul: Okay. Well, I look forward to learning more about that.
Mike: Absolutely.
Paul: But, obviously, we want to make sure that, when we get on the
right cycle, -
Mike: Right.
Paul: - that we're maximizing the equity in the equipment that we're
flipping.
Mike: Yep, absolutely.
Paul: Last question I've got is, really, sort of, you mentioned the impact
of COVID. Is COVID creating - what kind of anomaly is COVID
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creating for it? Is it creating a more target rich environment for this
to be our advantage, or is it one of these where we're coming in,
and this is the worst-case scenario? Like, you talked about the fleet
availability. We know if manufacturers’ inventory is low, probably
the cost - they’re not going to be as willing to negotiate on the cost
to the vehicles. Are we buying at the wrong time if there's a
COVID anomaly? Can you help me understand that a little bit?
Mike: So, here's the great thing. When you order a vehicle - just like you
probably have done in the past for the most part - when you order a
vehicle, that price is set. The incentives are set, and it’s best-case
pricing. So, the demand itself isn't by ordering direct from
manufacturer like you're used to, great news. Bad news is, if you
have a vehicle go down and it's at a dealership, right. Because
what's happened is, because the manufacturers were shut down for
three months, that's a lot of vehicles that didn't hit the road for
three months. So, when you start looking at the supply and
demand, the dealers need to make their profit to keep their lights
on. So, they are selling vehicles for higher than they normally
would. So, that's the challenge. So, that's why we have to plan and
proactively replace, so we don't get impacted negatively by a
situation like what happened this year.
Here's the great news about manufacturers shutting down, there's
always the catch-22. The great news is, because there's low supply
on the resale, any of the units that you need to sell, I would sell
them now. Because, you're going to get top dollar for re - because
people need vehicles. I mean, we - lately, we've gone into South
Carolina and North Carolina, Florida, to get vehicles, because we
want to make sure we always get the best buy, yo u know. And so,
it's a catch-22, but that's why you have us to give you the
information to make decisions.
Paul: Right. Thank you. It sounds like we have a lot to learn, and we
look forward to you guys helping us understand that.
Mike: Awesome.
Mayor Lockwood: Yeah, thank you. And just to, kind of, recap, and tell me if I'm off
track. Obviously, you know, you bring a third party or a
partnership in, there's no free lunch out there, you guys have to
make money. But what it sounds like to me, with your buying
power, hopefully, you get a better cost on the front-end purchasing.
As far as maintaining, operating the vehicles, they're basically, the
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city operates and uses them just like we own them.
Mike: Exactly.
Mayor Lockwood: We take care of the maintenance and whatnot, general maintenance
just like we have been. But also, then, I think, what I'm hearing,
the advantage isn't on the disposition side that, hopefully, you guys
can get more for them than if we stripped them down, and sent
them to auction, or whatever. You get a couple hundred bucks for
them, so. It sounds like, obviously, your company has got to make
some money, but then, we also benefit for the efficiencies and the
guidance and the, you know, experience that you guys bring us,
correct. And so, it sounds like from our Council, they're interested
to learn more, and if you guys could run some, you know, maybe a
ten-year plan, and you know, meet with our staff and all that, and
submit it to – then, we really appreciate your help and your time
here tonight.
Mike: Absolutely. Thank you all for your time.
All: Thank you.
Mark: Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: You're welcome.
Paul: Thank you. Is this yours? Close this out.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. If our city clerk would please call the next - sound the next
front - final presentation item.
2. Discussion of Text Amendments Relating to a Proposed New Use
Permit for Farm Winery Consumption on Premises of Beer and/or
Liquor.
(Robert Buscemi, City Architect)
City Clerk: That final item is a discussion of Text Amendments relating to a
proposed new use permit for farm winery consumption on
premises of beer and/or liquor, City Architect, Robert Buscemi and
Robyn McDonald.
Robyn: Okay. Let me look at this. Okay. Let me just [inaudible]
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[00:46:20]. Okay. I'm not going to do that, do it the old way.
Good evening. Good to see everybody tonight. So, here I am back
again. Also, Sarah LaDart’s here as well to answer any questions
that may come up associated with this topic specializing in the
actual alcohol ordinances. So, let me get started here.
Tonight, we're going to be reviewing the Text Amendments
relating to a proposed new use permit for farm winery
consumption on premises of beer and/or liquor. So, you're like, I
feel like this is - we've done this before, and you did. We talked
about this in August but let me just go back through some different
facts.
Farm winery in and of itself is a permitted use by right within the
AG-1 agricultural zoning district, i.e. they can raise grapes, they
can produce wine, they can serve wine, and there's certain
particulars that the state requires them to do. So, it's not just a free-
for-all. But as far as zoning, it is permitted as a right if they want to
do it. Council, you all approved some amendments to Chapter 4,
the alcoholic beverages to allow the selling of the wine at the farm
winery that's allowed by right. And within those discussions, the
Council directed the Community Development staff with
assistance from Sarah to propose a new use permit to allow the sale
of beer and/or liquor on a farm winery. So, this is outside of, you
know, the usual wine that's grown on the property as well as I
believe that they're allowed to import other Georgia wines, etc. to
be served on the property.
Staff, we presented a draft use permit to y'all on August 10th work
session. It was then directed for us to continue on with this process,
and we sent a draft Text Amendment to the - to start with the
Community Zoning Information Meeting on August 25th which
there were no community members attended either in-person or via
Zoom. Then, we presented it at a Planning Commission Meeting
utilizing the input from you all in the August work session.
Tonight, we're asking for further direction from Council before
proceeding. So, the next steps for this Text Amendment, right now,
is a first presentation of the proposed amendments on November
2nd, and then, a final vote on November 16th.
So, let me just go over what happened at the Planning Commission
Meeting on September 23rd. The Planning Commission
recommended denial of the proposed use permit in a vote of 4-2.
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The majority of members did not support the proposal. They stated
that by approving the use permit, it would be permitting a bar in
the agricultural district and it is a slippery slope.
So, here is - to the right, is what went before the Planning
Commission members. So, we - from previously, we reduced the
acreage from 20 to 5, and that it would just be - the use permit
wouldn't require that all five acres be the vineyard. It could just be
minimum five acres of the property. A maximum 25% gross
revenue of the winery may be from the sale of beer and liquor.
Food must be available. This is not to be considered a requirement
for a full kitchen. We talked about how pertinent state and city
licenses shall be obtained. Permits and/or approvals shall be
obtained for the building, life safety, land development. So, you
can't just have this farm winery and, you know, some - a lean-to,
and whatever. There has to be some processes for them to go
through for those different items.
So, there was some discussion in August how to deal with
development standards. So, we talked about how some of our other
use permits look at a case-by-case basis depending upon the size
and the situation of a property. So, that's what we had also
proposed, as well as, seven - we talked about a lot of items would
not be allowed to be within 100 feet of the property lines. And
then, I'm gonna look at this again in our most updated proposal,
because it will have changed a bit after some further research.
Again, maximum number of attendees and hours of operation will
be case-by-case. That's how we do the event facility, the
agricultural event facility. Parking should be 100 feet from all
property lines, screened from roads, you know, what it's going to
be made of, and then, one parking space per 2.5 attendees which is
the same requirement we have for the rural event facility. So, that's
what we presented to the planning commission.
So, since that point in time, staff has made some revisions to that
proposal utilizing some Planning Commission comments, some
further internal discussions, and the Council's input from the
August work session. I went back to listen to y'alls comments and
input, because I felt like it - there had been some time pass, and I
needed to make sure that we address those issues. And then - so
right now, staff is looking for any further comment/suggestions
prior to continuing on to the process of the first presentation on
November 2nd.
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So, here is the proposed use permit. You see in red some changes
from the original one. So, let me just highlight some additions and
subtractions. So, one of them was No. 2, the owner of the subject
property may reside on the site. You know, that was just making it
clear that you could have somebody who lived on the property or
possibly didn't. If it's your preference that they live on the property,
we can change that. It's just - I was just trying to be as flexible as
possible. We kept it at 25% of the total gross revenue of the farm
winery maybe from the sale of beer and liquor. From what I heard
you say in August, I think, y'all wanted the least amount of
regulation when it came to things that would be difficult to
enforce. That's what I - so, we kept it at 25%. There was some
discussion about reducing the amount, but just going back to the
August meeting, that's what I heard.
Again, food must be available. This is not to be considered a
requirement for a full kitchen. Again, at one point, I was
contemplating requiring that the gross revenues for food be X, but
again, going back to y'alls preference of less is more, as far as
regulation, then, I just left it alone. But that, you know, we can
discuss that if you'd like. Again, pertinent state and city licenses
must be acquired, also, for the building, life safety, land
development, that's all the same. I - the noise levels would be
consistent with the city code.
Also, the next part that was deleted was, all uses associated with
the farm winery other than the growing of the product to be used in
the wine production, including but not limited to structures, areas
of public gathering, etc., etc. So, you're like, well, why did you
take that all out? Well, when I looked at a five-acre minimum lot,
when you put 100-foot setback on that, you're left with almost
nothing. Just, you know, geometry shows that. I mean, not nothing,
but there's not - nothing - there's a lot less left over. So, Bob and I
discussed the situation, and so, what we were proposing was to
allow buildings to just be the minimum AG-1 setback, a 60-foot
front or 25 side, and then, have all the parking anterior. So, we're
still requiring parking to be at least 100 feet away from all property
lines, and we're hoping that that would result in - you would just
see buildings instead of parking, but it will, also, allow for the
flexibility on a smaller type lot. So, that's what that's all about.
The Planning Commission had suggested adding hours of
deliveries which was a great point. We just discussed that with the
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Methodist Church, you know, recently, about the deliveries. So, I
added that hours of deliveries as well. And then, No. 9, another
great input was, you could contemplate a property that might have
multiple use permits. You might have, you know, a petting zoo or
you might have - which is, you can get a use permit for that, or an
event facility, as well as the winery, so. Okay, we don't want
people carrying, and serving, and drinking their wine all over the
place when somebody's - your kid is, you know, petting the llama.
So, I added in the area where wine, beer, and liquor are permitted
to be served and consumed shall be identified on the site plan and
shall not be allowed outside that defined area. So, we could, kind
of, encompass or make sure that that type of use wasn't all over the
property if there were other uses occurring on the property.
And then, the parking. So, again, back to parking being 100 feet
away from all property lines, screens, the type of surface it needed
to be, and then, the one parking space per 2.5 attendees. So, that's
where we are right now. And we just wanted to - before we go to
the next step, that we were going in the right direction that y'all
had wanted to go to. Because I think that we were a little surprised
by the Planning Commission's reaction, and we just want to make
sure we're going in the right direction as well, so. And with that, I'd
be happy to answer any questions and get any input.
Mayor Lockwood: Let's open it up. Any questions or comments? Paul.
Paul: Robyn, when you made the comments early about the CZIM and
the Planning Commission Meetings not being attended by the
community. How is that advertised to the community?
Robyn: So, we send it - it's on the website, as well as, it's in the Milton
Herald. And then, I believe Greg, our Communications Director,
sends out a mass of emails on upcoming meetings, so.
Paul: So, in this particular case, the CZIM meeting and the Planning
Commission meeting were addressing the Text Amendment to the
alcohol ordinance? Or -
Robyn: No.
Paul: - what was -
Robyn: The use permit. I'm not dealing with alcohol.
Paul: Okay.
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Robyn: So, this is only the zoning ordinance which is - we were directed to
create a new use permit to allow farm winery to serve beer and or
liquor.
Paul: Okay. So, the fact that the community didn't attend, it's - I'm a little
concerned about the fact that that's a representation of - well, let
me say it differently. I'm concerned that, when you put it out
without some - well, let me say it even further differently. In this -
we know there is a farm winery application before us. Had the
CZIM been advertised as a hearing for that particular farm winery,
the attendants might have been very different, because the
neighbors would have seen the sign that would have been up in
front of it and, probably, would have gathered.
So, I think it's a bit of a misrepresentation, the fact that there was
zero people there that had any interest. And we know that there is
interest in the community about what's going to go on. And I'm not
taking a stab at staff, I just want to make sure that we take the
opportunity to ensure that the community really understands that
this is for this - we're trying to create a use permit that is farm
winery generic, but we know that we're addressing one, in
particular. It's hard to separate the two.
Robyn: Well, in this case, we are, at this point, we're only addressing the
use permit. And just for historic reasons, I just celebrated by 14th
year with the city. And I would say, throughout the whole time, I
have - almost zero to five people come to see the IMs involved
Text Amendments.
Paul: Yeah, yeah.
Robyn: I'm just, in general -
Paul: Yeah, I get that.
Robyn: - that is not, like, you know, the hot topic to, you know, get excited
about, typically, which I don't think that's a great reflection. I think
that it's a really important thing.
Paul: Right. No, but I think it went - when I think about two similar
points in time in our city's history, when the Union Grill, for
example, a restaurant at New Providence and Freemanville was
being introduced, CZIMs were well attended, Planning
Commissioner meeting was well attended, there was a lot of
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concern from the community to make sure it was done right. And
obviously, it was done right, because it's very successful there.
Same thing when Matilda's was introduced, you know, it was a
unique thing coming to the community. We hadn't contemplated it
before. We were working on Text Amendments to make sure that
we did that properly. Again, pretty high engagement from the
community on a variety of reasons. So, I think you're going to get a
different level of participation when the applicant, actually, has to
present themselves for consideration versus just being a Text
Amendment for what we're working on now.
Robyn: I totally agree. I mean, if it comes to this being adopted and an
applicant comes to apply for that, I totally agree. We give notice to
everybody within a quarter mile of an impacted property. So, I
totally agree with that.
Paul: So, is there an application from the current farm winery entity?
Robyn: There is not.
Paul: There is not.
Robyn: Well, there's nothing to give an application for a farm winery, but
if any of the other uses that you think might be occurring, no, there
is no application. I have been working - I will say, that at the
Planning Commission, Pam, from Pamelot was there along with
her attorney which it wasn't her alcohol attorney, it was her land
use attorney. And we had a good discussion talking about, you
know, I think there needs to be a more holistic view of everything.
And so, she is working with her client on that. But tonight, we're
here just for - to look at the use permit.
Paul: Okay.
Mayor Lockwood: And I think - just to piggyback on Paul what I think you're trying
to say is, just by advertising, and not knocking staff on
communication, whatever, but I see your point too, Robyn, by
advertising the Text Amendment doesn't bring out as much
enthusiasm from the citizens. So, it may, you know, take on a
different form if they do apply for something, so.
Robyn: Correct, yep.
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Mayor Lockwood: Peyton.
Peyton: [Inaudible] [01:02:37] yeah, just really quick, and this might be
left for the future meetings was - based on your presentation and
Planning Commissions' thoughts, I'm probably more leaning - just
to talk about the use permit itself. I'm probably more leaning in the
direction of changing that 'May' to 'Must' and maybe upping the
acreage. That's just my first glimpse at just the use permit, and -
Robert: To 'Must' on which part?
Peyton: To where the owner 'Must' reside at the property.
Robert: Uh-huh.
Peyton: I think that - if it ever passed - and I think that would be in
protection of the place. But that's just something to think about.
And also, you know, I agree, I mean, this is an interesting use
permit. And I think, we'll just have to go through it at that meeting
when it comes before us, because I don't like creating use permits
for one particular purpose unless it really is beneficial to the
community. And I guess, we'll go down that road when we see it.
So, yeah.
Carol: I have a question on -
Mayor Lockwood: Hold on one second. Carol.
Carol: Okay, go ahead. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Joe. So, there
seem to be some events there now as I drive by, and I'm like mm,
so how does that happen now if this just in the formulation stage? I
thought we were a ways away from those events. Did I
misunderstand that?
Robyn: So, I haven't seen it personally, but I don't know whether the
events are associated with the winery or whether it's other events.
And I think that's something that we need to address if it's other
events that are occurring, because the farm winery is by Right, and
we will follow up with that as far as other activities happening that
appear to be outside the norm of an equestrian facility/winery.
Carol: They seem to be large, a couple of times that I've driven by.
Robyn: Right, so.
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Mayor Lockwood: Okay, Rick.
Rick: So, Robyn and maybe Sarah, as of right now, we haven't approved
any special use permits for that farm that's on Bethany Way.
Robyn: Correct. Right.
Rick: Okay. So, just its - whatever its currently zoned for allowed?
Robyn: We have not approved any use permits that have gone through
Council -
Carol: Right.
Robyn: - or even Administrative permits.
Rick: So, there are no use permits specifically for that property?
Robyn: Correct.
Rick: Okay.
Mayor Lockwood: But to clarify that, I guess -
Robyn: Yeah, the farm winery is by rights.
[Inaudible - crosstalk] [01:04:54]
Robyn: Yes. Just like, you know, a vet clinic is by rights.
All: Right.
Robyn: Or a kennel is by right.
Rick: Yep.
Robyn: Yep.
Carol: Thank you.
Paul: But if there was a wedding there this weekend –
Mayor Lockwood: Hold on, Paul. Paul, excuse me. I'll move on to Joe. I know you
had something first.
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Joe: So, by right, does it require somebody to live on the property?
Robyn: For the farm winery, correct.
Joe: No [inaudible - crosstalk] [01:05:20].
Robyn: Or for - by right of what?
Joe: My point is, there's nothing in the AG-1 zoning that says, if we're
to get your zoning, you have to live on the property.
Robyn: Correct.
Joe: So, we shouldn't be thinking about having requirements for zoning
that include, you need to live on the property.
Robyn: But we do have other examples of other use permits that are
permitted in AG-1, i.e. a bed and breakfast.
Joe: But that's a little bit different, right? Because - but what we're
talking about is, the basic zoning of the property itself. This is a by
right thing, and whenever we use that term by right, I get sort of
[inaudible - crosstalk].
Robyn: I see what you mean. So, you're -
Joe: You're shaking your head.
Robyn: But you're saying -
Joe: We’re talking about a use permit.
Robyn: So, what he's trying to - I think what Councilman Jamison was
saying was, if this use permit to serve alcohol, i.e. beer and spirits,
is approved, that he would want that person to live on the property.
We're not saying right now, if somebody operates -
Joe: No, I got it. I got it.
Robyn: - a winery, they have to live on the property.
Joe: I'm getting a little tied up in this whole - we're trying to bandage
something that seems to be inherent in the zoning, and that's what's
got me a little bit worried. But we don't have to trip up [inaudible -
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crosstalk] [01:06:39].
Robyn: Is that correct, I think?
[Inaudible – crosstalk]
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Paul.
Paul: Yeah. I don't have an opinion. I just have a question. So, in a
scenario that you just talked about, where you're saying the by -
and this is just for discussion purposes. In the scenario where
you're concerned about the requirement for the proprietor or the
property owner to live onsite, you'd be okay with them not being
required to live onsite?
Robyn: If they serve alcohol.
Paul: Well, no. Separate and apart from the alcohol part. I just - because
I am agreeing with you about the - if it's a by right land use, I don't
necessarily have to live on every piece of property I own. If I own
ten, I can't live on all ten. So, if there's an occupancy requirement,
maybe we're going down a wrong path with that.
But where I want to propose a question for consideration is, what if
that entity then becomes commercialized to the point where you've
got major brand name and just, you know, Christian Brothers or
GALA Wines or something says, oh, that's a pretty cute little thing.
And then, all of a sudden, the craft beer concept becomes craft
wine concept, and you've got major entities suddenly interested.
Does - you know, should we be thinking about whether the owner
occupied comes into play to prohibit an undesirable that may be a
corporate environment. Suddenly, you've lost the quaintness of a
cute little farm winery, and it's a major commercial organization -
entity. I'm just posing that for thought. I don't have an opinion.
Joe: No. That's valid, that's valid, Paul. I don't know that I can get to the
point where that, potentially, poses a problem.
Paul: Yeah. I don't know.
Joe: [Inaudible] [01:08:14] be detrimental. So, it's something we need
to keep our eye on, -
Paul: Yeah.
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Joe: - because if we see some, kind of, shift which I'm only grinning
because what a great problem to have, right. Everybody's
clamoring to get into Milton so that they can put up their own farm
winery. That would be a great position to be in.
Paul: Yeah.
Joe: So, let's just - I think we can keep our eyes [inaudible - crosstalk].
Paul: The part that I have to keep reminding myself about, and I say this
for everybody's consumption is that, it's difficult - I have to remind
myself to separate what we're experiencing from the proprietor and
land owner, right now, from the process we're going through as a
city. And when there appeared to be repeated – and I’ll use the
word 'offenses' whether regulated or unregulated going on there,
and they expect us to give them a clean slate for a pure measure of
this, it's hard.
And we have to take that into consideration, because the proprietor
is creating biases, in my mind, about my willingness to grant
things that are then by right. By writing a really clean ordinance
when I know that they're already really ignoring this city, and its
permits, and its processes to do what they're doing today, you
know, with events, basically, every single weekend, music going
on into the evening, you know, tents being erected that imply a
pretty significant event. That's really problematic for me, and I'm
having a really hard time separating the two.
Mayor Lockwood: Let me ask, you know, to that point, I think, Carol brought that up
too, if we can have staff check on that if they are. You know,
obviously, it's two separate things from the process we're going
through, but we, probably, need to know that.
Robyn: I'll check on that.
Mayor Lockwood: If we can find out if they are doing some things that they're not,
actually, supposed to be.
Carol: Yeah, I don't want to be on the record saying -
Mayor Lockwood: And Carol -
Carol: I just was talking about, sir, I don't know and I'm not willing to go
that far in doing things that they're not supposed to be doing. That's
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not my nature. I'm just saying, driving by, I saw a lot of people
loading and unloading which led me to believe there are substantial
activities there, right. I'm just -
Paul: Yep.
Mayor Lockwood: Yeah, that's why - just let him check on that.
Carol: That's a little bit [inaudible - crosstalk] [01:10:30] for me,
because I can't say that.
Paul: But [inaudible] is probably a good [inaudible].
Carol: Okay. All right, thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Peyton.
Peyton: And Robyn, I know you mentioned a more holistic view I think
that y'all were talking about with her attorneys. That's something
that I would like for y'all to continue to maybe talk about, because
well, you get the farm winery use permit, and then - well, she's
having - say, she's going to have special events. She wants special
events, then, does that mean she has to get a special event use
permit and how do you merge? And I just want to make sure
whatever we do, whether it's approval or denial, it's clean,
everyone gets it, and we're on the same page, that's all.
Robyn: That was our discussion today. So, she's working with her client to
try to get together and present what her business plan is and what
she's doing and - oh. And then, we'll - and the attorney will work
with us -
Peyton: Okay.
Robyn: - and we'll come up with a game plan. And it's not unheard of to
have concurrent use permits, so let's say if this use permit gets
approved for the Text Amendment, that she would come with this
and then, she'd come in with, you know, the event facility, and/or a
bed and breakfast, or whatever it is. We can do it all together, and
we'll work together on it when it comes time, so.
Peyton: Thank you.
Robyn: Yep.
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Carol: Thank you, Robyn.
Mayor Lockwood: Paul.
Paul: This last comment, I would say, directionally, the things that
you've taken away from the Planning Commissions' comments are
on the right track -
Robyn: Okay.
Paul: - at least for the things that I heard today. And I think the parking
and the setback stuff, you've given it the appropriate consideration.
I think you're on the right track with that.
Robyn: Okay.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay.
Robyn: Great.
Mayor Lockwood: Thank you, Robyn.
Robyn: Thank you.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. We'll move on to our First Presentation. Tammy, if you will
please sound.
FIRST PRESENTATION
Tammy: That item is Consideration of an Ordinance to Amend Appendix A,
Parks and Recreation Fees and Other Charges, Chapter 34, Section
24 of the Milton City Code to Allow for Collection of Fees to Rent
the Birmingham United Methodist Church Baseball/Softball Field
(Agenda Item No. 20-297), Parks and Recreation Interim Manager,
Tom McKlveen.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Peyton: Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to approve Agenda Item No. 20-
297.
Rick: Second.
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Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have a motion for approval on the First Presentation
approved by Council Member Jamison, a second by Council
Member Mohrig. All in favor, please say, 'Aye'.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous. Okay, we don't have any items under Public
Hearing, Zoning Agenda, or Unfinished Business. So, we'll move
on to New Busines. Will the city clerk please sound that item?
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Jamison moved to approve
Agenda Item No. 20-297. Councilmember Mohrig seconded the
motion. The motion passed (6-0). Councilmember Bentley was
absent from the meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING (None)
ZONING AGENDA (None)
UNFINISHED BUSINESS (None)
NEW BUSINESS
City Clerk: That new business item is the consideration of subdivision plats
and revisions. The name of the development is Lakeside at
Crabapple located at 980 Mayfield Road, Land Lot No. 1099 &
1134. It's a final plat for 28 single-family lots, 41 townhomes, a
total of 69 units. The total acres is 13.76 acres and the density is
4.41 lots per acre (Agenda Item No. 20-298), Land Development
Manager, Tracie Wildes.
Tracie: Mayor, Council Members, hello. Tonight, I'm going to be
presenting to you the final plat for Lakeside at Crabapple. It's
located at 980 Mayfield Road which is just north of the Milton
Library. This development consists of five tracts for a total of
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13.760 acres. Tracts 1-4 will combine and then, resubdivide into
28 single family lots and 41 townhome units.
Now, the thing that we're most excited about is Tract 5. Tract 5,
the developer, Taylor Morrison, is transferring five acres out of the
total 13.7 acres to the City of Milton to be used as a civic space.
Right now, we're referring to the civic space as the lake, or lake
park. The photos here in the upper right-hand corner, you will see a
conceptual rendering that was done in conceptual design stage, and
was a vision, if you will, of what this area could one day become.
The picture in the lower left was taken a week ago, and this is the
progress of the construction of the lake today.
The new five-acre park will serve as a key gateway into downtown
Crabapple with many site upgrades. Residents are going to enjoy a
beautiful lake with a dock, sidewalks, trails, a sitting arbor,
benches along the trails, and new landscaping. So, it's pretty
exciting to see this piece of property, or this portion of the project,
developed from concept stage to construction stage. This portion of
the project is almost complete. We do expect guests to enjoy this
late Fall. Currently, the City of Milton in Crabapple enjoys the
green right across the street. And there's people there every day.
We look out as we're sitting here, and there's people there all the
time. Hopefully, in late Fall, soon, they will be able to enjoy a lake
in the City of Milton in Crabapple, and so, we expect the same
type of activity daily on that site.
Mayor Lockwood: Let me kind of add one thing.
Tracie: Absolutely.
Mayor Lockwood: Speaking of that, the property that that's on was owned for a long
time by the Smith family, and they're sending us some history and
information on that at some point. And I don't know if this is a firm
in stone name of it or whatever, but maybe presenting some of that
to Council -
Tracie: Sure.
Mayor Lockwood: - just to discuss if we want to have some, kind of, token memory or
something of the Smith family there, so.
Tracie: Sure. The project has not been named, so we would be open to
several suggestions. This final plat has been reviewed by city staff.
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It does meet the requirements for all the applicable city codes. Are
there any questions?
Mayor Lockwood: Any questions on this? Okay. I do have a question. It's not fair to
ask you - maybe Robyn may have to help or -
Tracie: We've got Bob in the house too.
Mayor Lockwood: Well, as Robyn said, she's been here 14 years. Do you know when
this property was actually zoned for this density in the whole area,
Robyn? And the reason I ask, and Greg's been great about
communicating things and whatnot, but I think, some people are
thinking, because this final plat is getting approved by us tonight,
that's not the same as we're approving this density or this
neighborhood, that's been in the works for a long – in fact, do you
even know off the top of your head when?
Robyn: It was - I believe it was June 2012. So, the Crabapple Form-Based
Code was adopted during 2012, and then, subsequently, Deerfield
was '14 and then amended in '15. So, it was 2012. So, yes, it's been
a long process, and I think Bob Buscemi has been working with all
the property owners in that eastside to try to get everything done,
and you can see that from, you know, the extension of Charlotte
Drive, and whatever it's - Heritage Walk now, I think, it’s going to
be called. So, it is been in the works, and, you know, I think that
also, that the developer spent a lot of money upgrading that dam
that is going to be to our advantage. And that that detention area is
a regional detention area. So, what will happen is, certain
properties on that east side will drain into it, and that they'll be
paying the city a maintenance fee based upon their impervious
areas or - correct?
Tracie: Correct.
Robyn: And so, this is a great way to - I mean, I think, it's just an
incredible development that isn't just, oh, we just did it yesterday.
It's been a long-time planning, so.
Mayor Lockwood: Just to take that one further, and I understand, you know, when we
adopted the Form-Based Code and this was planned out, but as far
as the density, I don't remember off the top of my head, but the
density in that area was, probably, already in place prior to that,
correct?
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Robyn: Right. So - and let me just - there was another step that was taken,
and I think Council person Jamison was, actually, on the Planning
Commission when this came before we required preliminary plats.
So, it's not the first time that the public would see this. They saw it
- what, probably about three years ago in, pretty much, this concept
- this scenario. So, the density in that area is four units per acre.
Part of the civic area was zoned T-2 which is only one unit per
acre. But, basically, by the developer doing the work and donating
the property, they got some benefit of that density from that five
acres was put on to and agreed upon that they would receive some
density from that five acres. So, when you look at the whole total,
it's - it is consistent with what the ordinance requires, so.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. Anybody -
Paul: But as I recall, actually, the number of townhomes was reduced. I
think at one point, it was over 50 on some of the first presentations
that were done, and we're at 41 now. And I think the single-family
residents' lots actually went up, if I remember correctly. Do you
remember that, Peyton?
Peyton: I think it's about what it was, I think.
Mayor Lockwood: But then, it gets to my point though -
Peyton: The zoning was done, like, eight years ago.
Paul: Yeah, a long time ago.
Mayor Lockwood: My biggest point with zoning overall and Crabapple, you know, I
mean, I've been here long enough when it was all woods and we
hoped it stayed all woods. But that zoning has been in place for a
long, long time. So, just - I say that so that people, when they see
this plat being approved, it's not as though we're adding density
now and the Council not voting on more homes than was allowed,
so. Okay. Anybody else have a question? Okay. I'll open up for a
motion.
Peyton: I did the last one. Mayor, I'll make a motion to approve of Agenda
Item No. 20-298.
Paul: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have a motion for approval from Council Member
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Jamison, and I believe Council Member Moore was first with the
second, though. All in favor, please say, 'Aye'.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: Any opposed? That's unanimous. Thank you, Tracie. Okay. Our
next item, we're going to move on to reports. Is there anything the
Council would like to report on? You know, I'll just further the
discussion on, again, the Smith family, right. Sean is going to get
some more information on [inaudible] [01:22:08] I would like us
just to consider that as we move forward with any, kind of,
remembrance of the family that lived there on the pond that we just
talked about - the lake. Okay. We'll move on to Staff Reports.
Bernadette, come on down.
Motion and Vote: Councilmember Jamison moved to approve
Agenda Item No. 20-298. Councilmember Moore seconded the
motion. The motion passed (6-0). Councilmember Moore was
absent from the meeting.
STAFF REPORTS
Department Updates
1. Finance
Bernadette: Good evening, Mayor and Council. As you know, we just began
another fiscal year on October 1st, and Finance staff are working to
close out the books for FY 2020. Just a reminder that we will not
have September financial statements on the agenda as the city's
final financial statements for the year are contained in the
comprehensive annual financial report with a [inaudible]. They'll
be published in March of 2021.
Business licenses were due the second week of August, and staff is
working with the remaining businesses to bring them into
compliance. We have approximately 140 left to renew. Property
tax bills went out for 2020. The due date for the City of Milton
property taxes is December 15th. This year, we've included a
sample bill with some of the definitions to, hopefully, aid property
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owners in understanding their tax bill's contents. Our bills are a
little different than the county, so we wanted to put that out there.
We've also included methods of payment and homes with
exemption opportunity is on the back side of that bill this year as
well. Supplemental bills and refunds for prior year adjustments and
overpayments to date have gone out as well.
And lastly, Council approved an agreement with ClearGov on
October 5th, and staff is working with that company to implement
the new transparency portal to implement a digital budget book for
ease of exploring our budget, and the budget processing platform
for ease of our staff to work together in producing a budget
annually. So, the goal is to have the transparency portal live at the
end of November for all the citizens to be able to review. And that
really covers our major updates for Finance for the quarter. If you
have any questions, I will be happy to answer them.
Mayor Lockwood: Are there any questions?
Bernadette: All right. Thank you so much.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Lockwood: All right. Thank you so much. Okay. I'll open up for a motion to
adjourn if there's not anything else that anyone has.
Joe: Meeting adjourn.
Paul: Second.
Mayor Lockwood: Okay. I have a motion from Council Member Longoria to adjourn
and a second from Council Member Moore. All in favor, please
say, 'Aye'.
All: Aye.
Mayor Lockwood: That's unanimous.
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Motion and Vote: Councilmember Longoria moved to adjourn the
city council meeting at 7:25 pm. Councilmember Moore
seconded the motion. The motion passed (6-0). Councilmember
Bentley was absent from the meeting.
Date Approved: December 7, 2020
__________________________________ _____________________________
Sudie AM Gordon, City Clerk Joe Lockwood, Mayor