HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - BPC - 03-13-2007Ricycle and Pedesbirn Plan
Citizens' ,ldvisoy Corn mittee Meeting Minutes
March 13.2007
The Bicycle and Pedestrian Plan meeting commenced Tuesday, March 13,2007 at 7:00 p.m.
Presenter: Dr. Bill Drummond
Georgia Tech
Meeting LeaderlCity Staff: Mike Tuller, City of Milton Assistant Manager Planning & Zoning
Other City Staff Abbie Jones, PE, City Engineer
Committee Members Present: Travis AlIen, Brian Maloney, Heidi Sowdet, Suzanne Cassada
David Deutsch
Committee haembers Not Present: BiIl Schellhorn, Mike Moss, Craig Warner
Introductions:
Presenter Dr. Bill Drummond: Introduced Committee Member David Chatharn to the Committee Members, as he has
been absent from the previous meetings.
Discussion bv Dr. Drummond and Mike TulIer about approval of the Februarv 13" and Februaw 27, 2007
Meeting Minutes
k The minutes of the February 13,2007 and February 27,2007
meetings were approved and ratified.
Preliminary Apenda Items Covered
1. Election of an Advisory Committee Chairperson
k Dr. Bill Drurnmond reminded the Committee that one of the items
on the last agenda was to appoint a Committee Chair to chair the
Committee in his place and call for votes, etc.
k Committee Members went around the table and introduced
themselves to those who had not previously been in attendance
& Staff left room to allow members to discuss elections.
9 Dr. Drummond and staff returned and were advised of decision to
appoint Brian Maloney and were also briefed what the Committee's
concerns were. They wanted to take material they were given and
with their ideas and move forward and get to work.
Bicycle and Pedestrian Plan
Citizens' Advisor?-Committee Meeting Minutes
)larch 13.2007
Concluding Consideration of Destinations (and Major Origins)
Chairman Brian Maloney talked to Committee and staff about
different types of materials for consideration like branding their
'Wesign" and being open to new "ideas."
Committee discussion on Milton Bike-Ped destinations, with
emphasis on major origins.
Dr. Drummond said that he would like over the next two weeks to
collect the destinations and expand their data set and have a
working set of destinations.
Committee discussion about building a permit file of active permits
in Milton in order to view where the major locations are and start to do
some analysis to see what areas are close to destinations and origins.
Committee Member David Deutsch discussed the importance of safe
routes and stated that they should be the major focal point in location
and design of project.
Chairman Brian Maloney discussed the importance of aesthetic
locations with Committee.
Committee discussion about the Columns Drive facility in Milton.
It was discussed that people go there because they feel it is safe, so
they are willing to drive there. Discussion about traffic has become
somewhat of an issue due to not being many other similar
facilities. There is the Silver Comet, Greenway in Alpharetta, and
the Roswell Trail, but rather limited after that. The question was
raised that if there was a place like Columns in Milton, where should
it be? Could it be done in a way that it would integrate with the system
as a whole?
Committee discussion about the purpose of the paths and trails, and that
the intent was not to really address for the use for high-speed bikers,
but maybe they could consider narrowing the paths so there could
be bike Pane. Talked about concerns over safety issues. Possibly have
engineers make wider shoulder (about a foot), paved or even just grass.
Make bike-friendly shoulders, and whether city couId address this
matter when new paving is done.
Committee Member Travis Allen discussed destinations being historic
properties and cemetery sites in Milton -not all shown on CT and GIS
map.
Committee Member David Chatham discussed the specific targets
areas, i.e., parks, schools, grocery stores, and churches as major
destinations.
Bicycle and Pedestrian Plan
Citizens' Advisory Committee Meeting Minutes
Rlarch 13,2007
2. Discussion about Short-Term and tong-Term Population
Projection Information
P Dr. Drummond and Staff passed out map showing population
estimates for Milton shown to the group.
> Two major origins to think about: (1) Overall pattern of where people
live and where they will be living and (2) individual Iocations
(where a large subdivision has access onto a road).
& Lengthy discussion about items on the population maps. Dr.
Drummond explained there is dificulty getting true population count
for Milton due to census track crossing into neighboring jurisdictions.
Materials provided indicate only an estimated population measure.
R Dr. Drummond reviewed what Representative Jan Jones talked about in
their last meeting about submitting legislation that would require
GDOT 20 add multi-use trails to areas where they undertake major
projects, if it was in the local transportation plan or comprehensive plan
or bike and pedestrian plan, so if she is able to do that, it could make
it easier to make bike lanes added.
B Abbie Jones spoke about projects that help other modes of
transportations, like bikes, pedestrians, and help eRorts to obtain funding
because of the air quality issues. ARC has reallocated their funding
due to construction costs going up -they have to reorganize and
reprioritize their funding. Two of the Milton projects got shifted up.
She explained to the Committee that the reason the Committee is so
important is because the map and plan that is developed means that it
has to be implemented in the future so when a developer comes in
later and wants to do something and there is a dashed line or solid
line on map that says "path" or "trail," they will be made to put it in.
She said that Representative Jan Jones has been technically involved
and understands project, and has promised to introduce legislation to
help with this project.
4. Presentation of Major Design Options: Marked Routes, Multiuse Trails,
Greeoways, Bicycle Lanes, Wide Shoulder Lanes, etc.
> Committee Member David Chatham said we need to get together a
plan and have some public involvement for the design. A design
that represents what Milton, Alpharetta, RQSW~~~,and Cherokee wants.
This is part of the 140 improvement to make sure design works in
everyone's best interest.
3 Discussion amongst members about types of materials used for paths
(concrete, crushed gravel, asphalt) and consideration of people using
them (bikers, roller-bladers, runners). Also maintenance considerations.
P Committee Member David Chatham spoke to Committee and said
that there needs to be a four foot separation between curb and trail
for landscapingltrees. Talk about easements.
Bicycle and Pedestrian Plan
Citizens' Advisory Committee Meeting Minutes
Marclc 13.2007
k Committee discussion on State Routes, use of 4 board fences at key
intersections and safety areas. Creates a theme for the city.
P Committee discussion about needing sidewaIks on both sides of roads.
P Committee discussion on considering 4" caliper trees. > Committee Member David Chatham said that the state is inclined
to use concrete because of less maintenance. Probably do not want
to box themselves in on rnateriaIs right now.
P Dr. Drummond stated that City CounciI would have to approve some of
the design ideas. > Committee Member David Chatham said he felt it would be best to
use existing right-of-way and easier to get funding. He believed
Committee should ask for something realistic instead of asking for
a big acquisition. He thought a minimum of 6 feet for a trail would
be very comfortable. > Mike Tuller agreed with Committee Member David Deutsch stating that
it is important to use GDOT's abilities to connect properties to the
trails, because it is different to buiId trails unless there is a
concurrent road project in place.
5. Public Comment: There was no public comment.
6. Condudiag Remarks & Next Steps
Committee was asked to start thinking about the followinq:
Regarding the three Sltate Routes in Milton (Route 9, Birmingham
Highway and Arnold Mill), the recommendation be made that along
those routes under the jurisdiction of GDOT, there be concrete or
asphalt sidewalkslpaths that are placed a minimum of 4 feet on both
sides if curblgutter and a minimum width of I0 feet if no curb.
PIanting of trees along streets
Use of 4 board fences on state routes.
Use of asphalt or concrete materials.
Tour for Bicycle & Pedestrian Committee proposed.
Types of facilities.
Committee Member Susan Cnssada spoke about difference between
gravel and rubber materials.
Committee Member Heidi Sowder talked about heat and smell of rubber
material Dr. Drummond passed around some basic pictures and said at
next session discuss the photos and considerations for some of the major
design choices. Identify some interesting places, different surfaces,
alignments, widths, etc. Suggested maybe members could check out for
themselves what the differences in 6,&and 10 feet would be.
Bicycle and Pedestrian Pram
Citizens' Advisory Committee Meeting Minutes
Slarcll 13,2007
Discussion about Committee looking at greenways, site paths,
examples of bicycIe lanes, and maybe wide shoulder lanes, and perhaps
compiling data of interesting places to go see so that Commirtee can
go out on their own, or maybe go out together.
Dr. Bill Drurnmond said they need to consider where you look as a
driver, when you run, what areas are safe.
Dr. Bill Drummond told Committee to look at the design manual
(AASHTO) pages they were provided for use in looking at bicycle
facilities. He indicated that on page one, they could look on the on-
street bicycle facilities and what the design guideIines are,
including parking. Second page shows cross-section of shared-use
path or multi-use path (about 10 feet or so).
Abbie Jones advised the Committee any engineering or technical
questions they had, she would look up for them and give answer at
next meeting.
Lengthy discussion with Committee Member David Chatham, the
other members of the Committee and Dr. Dmrnmond, about
eonsidering the use of asphalt and gravel. Committee Member David
Chatham said there are several good ones, that you just put a good base
under it. He said that the use of some types of rubber can be very
expensive.
Dr. Drummond said the Committee was welcomed to email GA Tech or
staff if they want them to look into anything in more detail and bring
back any additional information at the next meeting.
Dr. Dmrnrnond asked that the Committee recommend to them any
good places for them to go see examples of places that should or should
not be considered for use.
Committee Member David Deutsch mentioned that several of the
members talked before the meeting about where there are existing
gravel grounds and possibly incorporating them -asked if there is
anything that can be done to keep them as gravel roads.
Abbie Jones told Committee that she did not think the gravel roads
were changing anytime soon.
Committee Member David Deutsch said he knew that Travis Allen and
staff had submitted some things regarding the historic committee
to council and wanted to how if the gravel roads issue could be added
as part of that.
Dr. Drurnmond told Committee that if there is a local ordinance with a
local commission, then there is generalIy a lot more freedom to
designate.
Continued discussion amongst all Committee Members, Dr.
Drummond and staff about gravel roads.
Ricycle and l'edestrian Plan
Citizens' Advisory Committee MceGnc Minutes
hlarcir 13.2007
P Dr. Drurnrnond suggested the Committee meet again in two weeks
(Tuesday, March 27th).
After no further business, the meeting adjourned at 8:30 p.m.
-
Michael Tuller
Assistant Manager, Planning & Zoning