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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes CC - 05/11/2009 - MINS 05 11 09 WS (Migrated from Optiview)Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009 at 5:00 pm Page 1 of 18 This summary is provided as a convenience and service to the public, media, and staff. It is not the intent to transcribe proceedings verbatim. Any reproduction of this summary must include this notice. Public comments are noted and heard by Council, but not quoted. This document includes limited presentation by Council and invited speakers in summary form. This is an official record of the Milton City Council Meeting proceedings. Official Meetings are audio recorded. The Work Session of the Mayor and Council of the City of Milton was held on May 11, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Mayor Joe Lockwood presiding. Council Members Present: Councilmember Karen Thurman, Councilmember Julie Zahner Bailey, Councilmember Bill Lusk, Councilmember Burt Hewitt, Councilmember Tina D’Aversa, Councilmember Alan Tart Mayor Lockwood • Work sessions are a more informal setting to update the Council on business items. • No votes will be taken. • We will add an Executive Session to discuss personnel. • There will be a short break after the first item. • Public comment is allowed that is germane to an agenda item. • Anyone wishing to speak must fill out a card and turn it into the City Clerk staff. • Public comment will be allowed for a total of ten minutes per item and no more than two minutes per person. • Public comment will be heard at the beginning of each item. • Once the item is called no other cards will be accepted. City Clerk Marchiafava read the first agenda item. Traffic Calming Update Interim Public Works Director Carter Lucas • This is an update and a history on traffic calming. • Will discuss where we expect to go with the program overall. • Introduced Shannon Fain with Street Smarts. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • This will be a quick overview of traffic calming and what we have done for the City of Milton and where we are at now. • The goal is to reduce vehicular speeds on roadways where speed is not the primary design consideration for that roadway. • Residential streets for the most part. • Most programs did not start as a fully fledged program. • It started where one neighborhood did it and another neighborhood liked it so they wanted it for their neighborhood. • It spread and then you had a citywide program. • A lot of early programs dealt with road closures to keep from cut through traffic. • Now most programs go on speed control, humps, bumps, lumps, speed tables, and other devices. • Another development is natural traffic calming. • This is where you build in design standards for your subdivisions from the beginning which try to cut down on speeding. • It is not going back after the fact and adding in something, but designing to actual subdivision to discourage speeding. • You do that to narrow streets, on street parking, and having trees lining the streets. • Twenty years ago it was viewed as dangerous because it could cause you to run off the road, but now it is viewed as positive. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 2 of 18 • First somebody requests the traffic calming, then you have roadway type requirement where the city or county would look at the road to see if it would qualify for traffic calming. • It is usually a local road, not an interstate, arterial or collector. • There is usually a volume requirement. • If it is too low, it is not cost effective. • If there is too high a volume then it is no longer a local road. • There is usually a speed requirement. • You do not usually have traffic calming for places with posted speed limits above 30mph because you are no longer a local road at that point. • There are a lot of different types of traffic calming. • Speed bump is one of the older more common ones. • Speed hump is elongated. You do not have quite as sharp of a rise and it is spread out over a longer distance. • A speed table, there is a rise, then a flat portion and then the drop. • There are raised cross walks, raised intersections, which are basically a speed table where a part is flat and each approach has to come up and usually that flat part is brick or some type of paving structure. • One that is really popular is speed lumps. • They are sort of like speed humps, but you have these level sections in between it which your vehicle is wide enough, you can straddle the raised part and continue on at full speed so emergency vehicles, fire trucks could continue across the lump without having to reduce speed but the normal passenger car would hit one. • Related to that is a split speed hump, where you have a hump on this side of the road and not on that side and further down the road it is on the opposite side. • An emergency vehicle would be able to swerve and not have to reduce their speed as much if they were driving over the hump but personal vehicles would not be allowed to do that. • One that is up for debate is roundabouts but people debate whether it is an actual traffic calming device or just an intersection treatment. • The big thing with the roundabouts is instead of coming straight through the intersection there is a diversion around and the diversion deflection slows you down a bit. • Also pedestrians crossing can use the islands as refuge points. • Those are all examples of vertical deflection which is easier to put in. • Horizontal deflections are ones that causes a car to swerve or have to avoid the object. • A choker is where the road narrows at a point. • Horizontal deflection devices are a lot more expensive to put in after the fact. • You have to change the pavement and put in planters where with the vertical you can put down anywhere. • The City of Milton’s Department of Public Works approached Streets Smarts and asked us to help them update their traffic calming program and policy. • The task was to review the existing Ordinance, study similar programs throughout Georgia and the country and use the knowledge from those to develop a new program for Milton and then go back and look at the backlog of request that came in before a program was in place. • We used a variety of sources in Georgia, Atlanta, Gwinnett County, Woodstock all the way out to Utah, Minnesota, and Ohio. • We used transportation engineering guidelines, FHA guidelines and variety of sources. • As with most programs the request would come from an HOA, neighborhood group or it could come from and individual citizen. • The requirements they came up with for Milton was the road had to be a local residential street. • The posted speed limit had to be 25 or 30 mph. • The daily volume must be between 400 and 4000 vehicles per day and the 85th percentile speed must be in excess of 3mph over the speed limit. • They must meet all of those requirements. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 3 of 18 • The first step is someone would approach the City and say they would like for you to look at traffic calming. • The City of Milton verifies that the roadway meets eligibility requirements and collects $155 fee from the requestor. • That fee is the negotiated rate for 2009 to do traffic counts to see if it meets the volume requirements and the speed requirement. • The next step would be to carry that study out so the City determines if that problem exists. • If it does meet the requirements the City creates a concept design and cost estimate and presents that to the HOA or individual. • It is then up to them to collect 75% of the people in the neighborhoods signature to support the installation of the traffic device and to pay their portion. • They would pay 50% and the City would pay 50% so 75% of the neighborhood would have to agree to pay 50% of the cost with the City paying the other 50%. • In the current program it is a 75/25 with the City paying 75%. • Six months later you have a post construction review to see if the speeds are lowered on that street. • The backlog is made up of 18 requests, over 11 subdivisions. • It had to be a local street with 25 to 30mph speed limit, daily volume between 400 and 4000 and the 85th percentile speed had to be 3mph or higher over the speed limit. • They applied the new program to those and 8 met the requirements. • They then took those 8 and ranked them 1 to 8. • The first column is which had the highest mph over the speed limit. • Treyburn Manor had the highest speed problem. • We then ranked them by volume and which road carried the most traffic. • Then we did a factor where we multiplied the speed over the speed limit times the volume to get a number and ranked that number. • You could think of that as how many vehicles traveling how many mph over the speed limit. • Finally we averaged those three numbers together to arrive at the final ranking. • Creek Club Drive and north of state route 9 is the top ranked problem we had. • First the City will notify all the requestors and let them know whether they qualified and why. • The concept meetings are where the City will produce a concept drawing and discussion of what could be done on that street. • Once that is presented to those HOAs, it is up to them to collect the signatures and agree to fund their 50%. Councilmember Thurman • Asked what exactly will be constructed. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • The concept statement will address that. • There are different factors and the concept portion would address. • Also the 50/50 split is where the City would pay 50% of what would work there but if the HOA wanted to upgrade that, they would be responsible for the additional portion. Councilmember Thurman • Asked about roads that may not have qualified and if we would offer anything to them if they want to pay a greater percentage of it or do we just say they do not qualify. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • If an area wants to have one and they qualify, they can pay more that 50% just to expedite the process. • If they do not qualify the best result would probably be to pay for the counts to be carried out again. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 4 of 18 • This whole process is for a public request. • If public works thinks that something is needed, they do not have to go through this. • They could just carry it out from a public safety stand point. Councilmember Thurman • Asked about gravel roads where 25mph may be too fast, but it may be what the average speed is. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • They did not address any gravel road. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • One thing to keep in mind is that lower threshold of 400 vehicles a day is certainly something that is up for discussion. • We wanted to set it at some point where it would make sense to slip city dollars on those types of facilities. • That is the administrative guidelines. • The policy can be written such that that is the threshold that staff looks at and can approve from a staff level. • If it does not meet the guidelines there can be an appeal process where they can appeal the decision of staff to Mayor and Council. Councilmember Tart • Say there is one particular part of a subdivision that is affected by this and the greater majority of the subdivision is not, however, it could be that the affected homeowners would be willing to foot the 50% and not have to involve the entire neighborhood because 75% is pretty hard to get. • He would think if the affected homeowners were willing to pay it could be just the affected homeowners and necessarily the entire neighborhood. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • The percentages could be changed. • There would be cases where maybe only a couple of homeowners would be affected but they put it in just to get the neighborhood consensus if they would want that in their neighborhood. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • Thinks the existing policy talks about affected property owners versus the entire subdivision. • Public Works can make a determination that a smaller percentage of that subdivision would fall under these guidelines. Councilmember Tart • He would think if they were raising dues to require everyone to pay for it then they would in fact be affected. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • Public Works defines the neighborhood as to what population has to be made up of that 75%. Mayor Lockwood • He would wonder if they would open a can of worms, say you have one street and maybe there is only one neighbor that is affected and was willing to foot the bill but the rest of the neighborhood was affected because they had to drive through it and maybe were against it so he could see where you would have to have some kind of balance. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 5 of 18 Councilmember Tart • So the affect goes beyond just the money. • He can see that. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • That percentage of other counties and cities they looked at varied from 50% up to 90% approval by the neighborhood. • The average was 65 to 75. Councilmember Tart • Referencing the top 8 on the list, he asked if the qualifying fee would be waived. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • Correct. Councilmember Tart • Assuming all 8 of those said yes they will pay, asked how to deal with it if the City does not have the money to do all of them. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • That is still up for discussion. • John took a quick look at some of the cost before the meeting and for a typical speed hump in Gwinnett County was $1,800 for each of those, ranging all the way up to $15,000 to $20,000 if you are looking at the intersection type. • There is a finite budget and this year we have $35,000 in our budget which would be $70,000 if we are looking at a 50/50 split for these measures. • He thinks it still has to be determined how that gets broken out over that list. • That is a Gwinnett County cost so it is based on a much larger program. • The basic speed table will probably run $2,000 to $3,000. Councilmember Lusk • Asked if we could come up with a cost for each of the roads based on the length. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • Yes and if you generally looked at one of the subdivisions on that list, it would probably be around $15,000 to $20,000. Councilmember Lusk • On the overall ranking summary, asked if he would go through the mathematics on that. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • The first column is the speed ranking 1 to 8. • The second one is the volume on that roadway, for example Treyburn Manor had a high degree of speeding but it was the fifth highest volume so you might not have as many people speeding whereas for example Creek Club Drive is the second worst speeding and the second highest volume so you have a lot of people driving really fast. • The third one is a factor they developed multiplying the speed times the volume so it is thirty seven mph times 2,000 vehicles a day to get the number and then ranked it according to that. • The other is an average of those 3 numbers. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 6 of 18 Councilmember D’Aversa • It would be nice to know what a comparison is of these various types and also the difference in material types. • Some subdivisions with high home cost will probably want a much higher grade of material in the devices. • Asked what the process is with the public after the determination is made. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • The ranking was just for the existing backlog. • The request that came in before the program was in place. Councilmember D’Aversa • Asked if they used the number we already had. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • They collected speed and traffic data early December 2008. Councilmember D’Aversa • Asked what would be the next step after they are determined to be qualified. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • The City would develop to concept drawings and present those to each of the HOAs saying here is your problem and this is what we think the best solution is for that problem. • You would give them the cost and they would have to get the 75% signatures and then the construction and installation would take place. • Once all of the concept drawings are out and the HOAs had been met with, it could be the group that ranked 8th on our site could be the first one to have it installed if they got their signatures. Councilmember D’Aversa • In doing his evaluation around the country of the different types of traffic calming devices and materials, asked how often did he see roads being gated or other types of things happen with the roads and did he see other types of deterrents. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • The big one is on street parking, trees, narrow streets when you have new roads or retro fitting older roads where you do not want people to have the perception they can drive over the speed limit. • The common one is to design the subdivisions that way to begin with. • The all out road closures have declined a lot. • Some places have put in the concrete post that can actually collapse for emergency vehicles to get through. • The majority you see now is lumps, humps, raised intersections, raised crosswalks. Mayor Lockwood • Councilmember D’Aversa had a good point and he touched on it a little when they talked about the citizens could absorb the additional cost. • He would assume from the base line cost, they would absorb all of the additional cost and not just 50%. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • We would have a standard detail for each of these measures that we would pay 50% of the standard and anything above that would be on the applicant. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 7 of 18 Mayor Lockwood • Asked if the rankings were based on the City’s or where did they come from. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • They were ranked off the speed and volume counts they took in December. Mayor Lockwood • Asked if the City had done some additional ones. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • We did some additional ones on certain streets but all of these particular numbers are based on traffic counts done by Street Smarts at the time of the study. Mayor Lockwood • His specific question for example is Crooked Creek. • They had some done and the City had some done. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • This would be in addition to those. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • In terms of the design process, asked what the timing in terms of beginning to conduct the actual assessment of each of the 8. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • They wanted to get some feedback from Council on the overall program and then take the comments into consideration, complete the program, complete the ordinance, make any modifications to that and then come back with the final program. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • From a design standpoint, obviously the DRB is one of the entities that she recommends and that they consider the existing overlays. • We want to be consistent with they expect the businesses to do in our communities. • With some of the base line opportunity for speed enhancement, if they could look at a base line that would be consistent with some of the overlays, she thinks that is important because it is a design element that speaks to our rural character. • In terms of the cost, she understands the need to affirm that 75% of the homeowners would want that, asked what the process would be for collection of the fees. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • There is $155 fee for 2009 and that is cover going out and doing the volume and speed count. • We will collect the construction cost up front. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • Her other question has to do with coordination with the Transportation Master Plan, asked if it was fair to say that the design for these would parlay with what they are doing from a transportation master planning process. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 8 of 18 Interim Public Works Director Lucas • He does not know that it would really work into that. • This program is really on the local roads only so he does not know that this would affect that in any significant way. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • She would suggest to at least having the conversation to make sure that none of what they are doing would compliment what they have already done, since it is all transportation related. Faye DiMassimo, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • Certainly in the sections they have talked about, they can include a reference to the work that is done here that is directed at local roads. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • It may be that one of us if more focused on local roads than the other but just in case, from a design standpoint as an example so we have some cross collateralization. • The other would be that Kimley Horn has done some assessment about gravel roads as an example, so even though we do not have any current request on our gravel roads, it would seem we would want to identify what would be some design approaches if we need to look at reducing speed or having some traffic calming on those roads. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • That would be one that he would expect to come back to Mayor and Council because what they have seen so far on the gravel roads is they do not get to that 400 vehicle a day threshold. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • There might be some other things they could be doing while they are out maintaining those roads that compliment traffic reduction at the same time. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • The maintenance of it brings up a good point in that with the speed humps and speed tables, those vertical type deflections, in the past any roads considered for LARP funding, they will not qualify under that so with these type measures it becomes city maintenance. Faye DiMassimo, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • One of the things it seems would be appropriate in terms of the coordination of these efforts is also with the comp planning effort and working with Alice. • It seems in terms of how you lay out roads in subdivisions is really more of the comp plan and land use plan activities. Councilmember Lusk • Creek Club Drive, which is over a mile long, asked who would determine what type of calming device would be installed there. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • Right now the way it is written it will be the City, essentially public works. • Ideally you would come to a decision with the HOA and work through it. • We have a cost share in this so they cannot go through and pick the most expensive one at every intersection. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 9 of 18 Councilmember Lusk • Thinks we need to have some teeth in the ordinance to force a final decision and make someone the final arbitrator. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • Just like whether or not it meets the standards and the City may say they do not qualify for it then they have the option to go to Mayor and Council on an appeal, they would have that same avenue if they did not like the mix or they did not like the plan that was prepared, they could appeal it to Mayor and Council. Councilmember Lusk • Asked if the entire neighborhood would be voting or just the people on the particular roadway. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • It is 75% of the affected property owners as determined by public works. Councilmember Lusk • Who would be affected, would it be the adjoining neighborhoods. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • It is ambiguous the way it is in the current policy and thinks they would try and narrow that down and it is the affected property owners who will be footing the bill for this. Councilmember Tart • As far as the bidding process and we assume they qualify, asked how we would bid that job out. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • We would go through our standard city procurement process so after the initial concepts design if it is below a certain dollar threshold it may be 3 bids, 3 verbal quotes, 3 written quotes. • If it breaks the $50,000 threshold it will go through the formal bid process. Councilmember Tart • Asked if someone could compare the effectiveness of the different types of traffic calming devices. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • The horizontal items have less maintenance cost because vehicles are not literally driving on them. • The vertical ones are usually a lot cheaper and can be put in a lot faster and if they need to be removed for some reason they are a lot easier to remove. Councilmember Thurman • Asked if they had looked at traffic calming for roads that are over 30mph. Shannon Fain, Street Smarts • Most areas do not consider that a local road anymore. • A big consideration of a local road is that you have more of a neighborhood environment and most places anything above 30 is commercial and retail. Faye DiMassimo, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • We are considering open road neighborhoods. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 10 of 18 • It is a very unique term to the City of Milton so they are specifically considering the concerns and considerations of the open road neighborhoods and how they can achieve some of the traffic calming activity on those kinds of roads. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • We will take everything we have heard tonight and try to develop a final product to bring back to Council. • We will move forward with what we have here as the basic frame work. Councilmember D’Aversa • To Councilmember Lusk’s point, we might need to tighten up how the process works because we do not want to have it cost a fortune in man hours and trying to negotiate what the final design would be. • If we have design guidelines and plans and overlays that we have to use and we have homeowners wanting something different than the next homeowner. Councilmember Tart • Just from homeowners wanting different types of things, there will be neighborhoods wanting different types of things so he can see different issues coming up. Councilmember Thurman • She thinks also we need to be careful because the design cost could get pretty expensive so we need to make sure we are not paying to have a different design at every single location. Councilmember Hewitt • We would probably come up with the least cost to solve the problem that we agree that have and use that as a base line and then anything above that would be covered by them. Councilmember Lusk • Thinks most of the design cost will be up front. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • He is envisioning 4 or 5 standard details and we have some general cost from previous projects associated with those. • The hardest part will be this initial part of the program. • We have 8 communities right now and a limited budget. • Once we get through these first 8 it will be on a first come first serve basis. • We need to work through a fair process to get them in and get them through the system with the limited amount of money we have for this fiscal year. Councilmember Thurman • Asked if they would be through the system in this fiscal year because the fiscal year ends in September. • Will we get the design standards and the project completed and their signatures and all of that within this year or will it roll over to next year. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • It will probably go over to next year. • Some of the communities are ready to go now. • Some may say never mind. • Some may have a difficult time getting the signatures but some are ready now. • There is nothing in the policy that says each community can only use 50% of the budget or a set dollar amount assigned to each community. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 11 of 18 Councilmember Zahner Bailey • Hopefully, the language will be clear both from the staff and legally that there are budget constraints so we do not set an expectation that citizens think, great, if I had met this criteria, we will get it if we are willing to spend that 50%. • Knowing that we do have a limited budget and we do not yet have an assessment of what these suggestions would be for these 8, asked if the 50/50 split would be the best approach initially knowing we have 8. • Would we want to consider a different split in order to provide equal opportunity to all neighborhoods. • From the whole premise of fairness, some people may feel they have a greater opportunity to expend more dollars and we need to be cautious that we do not set ourselves up to allowing those that may have a deeper pocket book to put in some safety measures. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • Maybe when we come back with the final program we can come back with a cost of these and have that discussion again. Councilmember Tart • Since these neighborhoods turned in their request prior to any change that might be forth coming, asked if it was an Ordinance that they would pay 25/75 and if so and they have asked for the evaluation to done under the current Ordinance are we still going to be paying 75% for that or can we now pass a new ordinance. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • It is in ordinance format, unless we went back and established some guideline that said, we are not going to hear any request until we adopt this new policy, these request may be heard under that old ordinance. City Attorney Ken Jarrard • There is some precedent, if you submit your application pursuant to a certain ordinance and you get to be reviewed under that Ordinance. Councilmember Hewitt • Asked if the current ordinance gives these different criteria to rank them. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • It does give the volume and speed criteria. • It does not give specific numbers. Councilmember Thurman • The current Ordinance is pretty broad. Break Mayor Lockwood • Called for the break at 6:12 p.m. Reconvene The Work Session Reconvened at 6:39 p.m. City Clerk Marchiafava read the next agenda item. Presentation on Pavement Management Plan Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 12 of 18 Angela Priest, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • The Pavement Management Plan is a portion of what Kimley-Horn is doing for the City of Milton as part of the comprehensive Transportation Plan. • We will most specifically get you prepared for your capital improvement projects and budget. • The City of Milton had a pavement management study done that inventoried all of the paved roadways. • There was about 190 miles infrastructure management systems did the study. • Now, Kimley Horn has been asked to review what they have done and put a little more local thought and specifically recommend some projects for your budget for this year. • She believed June starts the process to determine what your capital projects will be. • The first piece of that was to review the study from IMS. • They used and automated van and it basically has a lot of censors on it and it measures distresses on the pavement, cracks, ruts, surface ride, how you feel in your car with the vibration. • It gives it a score for an index. • The study also uses a software program that will allow it giving different budget scenarios, to give you and understanding of how good or bad your infrastructure as a whole is and some of the things you need to do to keep up that infrastructure and how to manage it so you do not have a lot of backlog. • Our first piece of this was to review what they did and understand their condition index and understand their recommendation and then see if there are ways to improve upon those to provide something that was a little more useful. • We reviewed the report and we also drove about every City owned road in Milton and compared it with the values that the IMS study looked at. • The rating PCI is a pavement condition index. • It is a standard testing method. • It is an ASTM standard that measures different distresses in the pavement and it uses a GDOT procedure to weight those to determine the overall rating. • Zero being the worst, a completely failed road, and 100 being the best case. • In the City of Milton the area weighted PCI value in 2006 was 57. • 70 is a very good number. • A lot of cities or counties look to reach 70. • 57 is certainly not terrible. • When she and Craig drove the roads and did a windshield survey to verify these numbers, we felt comfortable with 57. • We also felt comfortable on the individual roadway PCI values. • Of course some roads have gotten worse since 2006 and some roads have also been funded and paved since then. • They took those into account and took notes of those. • A lot of these pavement managements are like black boxes to put a lot of information in and then you get something out and you do not really understand exactly what happened, so they looked at that to make sure we did understand it and felt that it made since for Milton and something that made since from Georgia’s perspective. • We felt like their recommendations were pretty useful. • There are some things that were in there that the City of Milton would not do based on the rating. • Some of the roads with a low PCI value, they might say you need to tear the road up from the sub grade and rebuild it but is that really practical or something there is funding for or something the City of Milton is going to undertake. • Are there other alternatives that could provide a better road that would be a better use of funds? • Yes absolutely. • We took the outputs of all of the information that IMS did and we looked to see along with input from the Department of Public Works some other priorities and felt that IMS was a good starting point but we need to apply some other thoughts as well. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 13 of 18 • You have a pretty healthy backlog of activities that you need to do to keep up the infrastructure. • The major point that IMS made was that you need an annual budget for capital improvement projects of 2.2 million dollars in order to reach a PCI of 70 in the next ten years with a backlog that is a little more manageable. • We found that the PCI values are pretty good and Craig will talk about the cost and how useful the cost data is that IMS did. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • Will give some background on what pavement management is. • Angela touched on what the PCI is and why it is useful for a city to have. • It gives you a systematic way to assess what your infrastructure condition is. • That is the main reason behind a pavement management system. • IMS used the GBA software which is the software that the city has that allows you based on these different conditions to prioritize what projects need to be funded and when they need to be done etcetera along with what it will cost. • From a visual standpoint which is all the pavement management study is, is just looking strictly at the surface distress. • It is not taking into any account structural related distresses even though the different distress types lead you into to what kind of mechanisms are causing the different types of distresses. • It really provides a lot in insight into what is happening with the pavement and how you should maintain it in the future. • A lot of cities say, if they can maintain their roads with a PCI of 55 and spend a reasonable budget, they are happy with that. • There are a lot of things that you can look at and IMS study took a real general look. • They ran a lot of different budget scenarios and tried to get to what it takes to get to a PCI of 70. • That was something that was decided upon with public works. • In order to get to that number it would cost 2.25 million dollars a year. • Is it realistic, is it something we can get to, is that the number we want to be at? • Those are questions that we would like feedback from everyone on. • The one thing that we did notice through our review of that study is, one of the major inputs in a pavement management system are prioritization, what are we going to do and when are we going to do it, the type of treatment that we are going to do and the last would be unit cost. • The unit cost is the biggest thing because they determine what the budget numbers will be and what the project will cost. • Going through IMS study, we do not have the background on where they came up with their unit cost and how that was entailed but based on recent bids in the area, recent bids the City of Milton, their unit cost were 15 to 30% higher than what we are seeing. • Obviously, we are looking short term. • We are looking 2 years right now in terms of the CIP. • Lately, bid prices are bottom of the barrel. • You can almost steal projects right now so these numbers may be a little inflated but that is something we try to address with updating the unit cost. • What that ultimately impacts is the 2.25 million dollars that is needed. • That is based on their budget with inflated unit cost so this number could be 1.7 million or 1.5 million. • We were not able to access the software that was used by IMS so there is no way for us to go back and look at what the impact to change in the unit cost has on that overall number and how much it will cost each year to get there. • That can be done through an update and you want to update every 3 to 5 years. • These condition values are based on 2006, 2007 data so some roads have decreased and some have increased. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 14 of 18 • In terms of developing the CIP we had a paving budget, originally 2.4 million dollars was requested. • To our knowledge right now what we have is 1.4 million. • When we developed it we looked at the public and city priorities. • We had many discussions with public works to figure what were the highest priorities. • What has changed from the conditions etcetera. • The PCI values and distress types were taken into account. • A couple of things to keep in mind with the LARP funding when we are developing this is we submit the roadways to the state for funding. • It is uncertain right now as to what we are going to get for LARP funding but what we do get, any type of pre-overlay repairs that may come out of LARP or come out of city dollars. • That is something the city has to fund outside of just the overlay the LARP would fund. • Rehabilitated roadways were taken into account because the IMS study still shows those as very low PCI values. • The public and city priorities match the need to see, after talking with public works because the roads that they identified that they fell in line with the worst first strategy in developing the CIP and the pavement management. • When it come to pavement management you can look at it on two levels. • One is like a preventative maintenance level where you want to maintain your better conditioned roadways at the highest level and then fund your pavements that are in really bad condition. • Our citywide PCI value has gotten low enough that we want to take this worst first strategy for the first couple of years and try to rehabilitate our roads that are really bad. • We want to try and bring up our area weighted PCI for the city, thus we will move to a preventative maintenance strategy in the future and that would be to try and attack roads that have PCI values in the 80 to 90 range with surface treatments and so on that have not been used much in the City. • Update unit cost into the future are very important and then update the pavement condition data every 3 to 5 years. • The overall recommended capital paving projects goes over the 1.4 million dollars but this is prioritized so what we will do from this is just knock off whatever we have to knock off to get down to the 1.4 million dollar budget. • Kensington Farms road was a road that was somewhat committed road as we were told and needs to be addressed. • Morris Road was identified as the highest priority by the City. • There is some significant deterioration that needs to be completely reconstructed. • We considered some percentages for overlay and reconstruction type. • Thompson Road there is an area weighted PCI of 7 and the actual from/to locations are in the spread sheet so if you want a more specific location of where we are thinking we are going to go. • Hickory Flat, Birmingham and Bethany Road were other priorities that were identified and even based on the 2 million dollar budget that we had originally, you can see some went unfunded. • Whenever the LARP money comes in that is something we will have to address and make recommendations on as we know what is available. • He thinks they just need some feedback one what Council feels about their priorities and what roadways they feel need to be identified. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • In terms of the unit cost when you mentioned the IMS was higher than what it is currently, asked if these cost estimates took into accounts the lower cost. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • Yes, those are the updated unit cost. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 15 of 18 Councilmember Zahner Bailey • When you mentioned that you were not able to access that IMS software, asked the City Manager if that was something we are able to help them with. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • We could have accessed at a City computer. • The City owns the software. • We do not own the software so we had no direct access to it. • He does not know what the protocol would have been for us coming in and accessing City computers. • It was set to be an option but never came to total fruition. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • As a footnote, she would ask the City Manager, since one of the outcomes is that we need to re-evaluate those comes, it seems to her it would be an easy thing to resolve. • If we have data that could be accessed by our consultants. Angela Priest, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • We do not have very much with that software. • If we would have started this we would have used a different program so for us to get started on that with the City time and fund, it just was not the best use of our time. • She thinks it is something that IMS could easily update or if the City finds it important to learn how to use it, is just was not in what we had planned to do. Councilmember Zahner Bailey • We need to do something to resolve the fact that we have some estimated cost that now needs to be adjusted. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • The recommended plans are all updated to unit cost. • The two things they lack by not being able to get into the software are this backlog number, because every project changes and what happens when these projects change is the program is going to bump more projects up into the recommendations and that will impact the area weighted PCI value based on those decisions are. • We have the data. It is just in spread sheet form. Councilmember Lusk • Asked if he was lead to believe that the overlay portion is the LARP portion. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • The LARP portion is more the residential roadways that have been identified by the City. • None of these are LARP dollars. • Your LARP dollars are summarized at the bottom of the spread sheet in your packet. Councilmember Lusk • So these estimated costs do not include LARP funds, but is the total cost. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • Correct, that is something we wanted to point out. • There was the LARP money and then there was this big capital budget money and that is what we are trying to focus on now. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 16 of 18 • We have no idea what the LARP is going to be. Councilmember Lusk • With Morris Road, the reconstruction, the patch and the overlay, asked how confident they are of that estimate. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • They are fairly confident of it. • They think it will be close. • They assumed reconstruction of 30% of the roadway and isolated areas of patching for distressed areas and an overlay on top of it. Councilmember Lusk • Asked what process they anticipated - a total depth reclamation process. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • Yes. • There is an area which mainly would be concentrated where the road dips down toward the bottom is the area they identified for the reconstruction. Councilmember Lusk • This does not take into account any drainage repair. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • No, this is strictly pavement related project cost. Councilmember Lusk • Asked if they observed any drainage issues that were contributing to some of this deterioration to these roads. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • Yes, it is hard to tell with what we were doing in our scope outline with a visual survey to verify the distress. • We spent a lot of time with the public works people and they showed us some areas they felt had some drainage issues. Councilmember Lusk • Asked Interim Public Works Director Lucas about the drainage issues contributing to some of the deterioration of these pavements. • Asked if we had done any assessments of those possible areas. Interim Public Works Director Lucas • He does not know specifically about Morris Road but they will look into it. • He thinks any time they have done the capital improvements before, drainage was one of the things they had looked it but he does not know how much it has been included in Morris Road. Angela West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • When they drove Morris Road back in March, there was some concern about drainage because the median is always irrigated and sprays the asphalt daily. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 17 of 18 Councilmember D’Aversa • The budget you worked from, asked where they got that from. City Manager Lagerbloom • If we could get a few minutes to regroup, he thinks we need to provide some better information than what is being presented. Councilmember D’Aversa • It would be helpful to know that an inventory of what we have done already to date. • Asked what he meant when he said Kensington Farms was committed. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • They were advised that half of that road was committed to be repaved. Councilmember D’Aversa • Asked if that was something committed because they had done something for us. Craig West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • Its PCI is at 10 so it needs to be addressed. Angela West, Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc. • It had been expressed to us that this was a commitment that the City had made to residents. • It was in poor condition and maybe it did not receive LARP funding. City Manager Lagerbloom • We are wasting everyone’s time with this presentation at this point. • We just need to stop it and provide correct information so he asked to defer this until a later date. Councilmember D’Aversa • Asked what exactly that means. City Manger Lagerbloom • He is looking at this report that shows that these items are programmed in fiscal year 2010 and those items are funded in fiscal year 2009 and are ready for construction now so if we are going to sit here and look at a capital budget, he wants to make sure we are looking at an accurate capital budget. What he is seeing in this presentation does not match our budget that is adopted by the City. City Clerk Marchiafava read the next agenda item. Added Item Executive Session to discuss personnel Motion and Vote: Councilmember Thurman moved to adjourn into Executive Session at 7:09 p.m. Councilmember D’Aversa seconded the motion. There was no Council discussion. The motion passed unanimously. Reconvene Motion and Vote: Councilmember Lusk moved to reconvene the Work Session at 7:27 p.m. Councilmember Thurman seconded the motion. There was no Council discussion. The motion passed unanimously. Work Session of the Milton City Council Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:00 PM Page 18 of 18 After no further business, the Work Session adjourned at 7.29 p.m. Date Approved: June 1, 2009 �'X� k. tte R. Marchiafava, City Clerk Joe LqdwoA Mayor